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View Full Version : Help - we need your ideas!



Hal Bryan
04-30-2012, 01:21 PM
In thinking about the young people that come to Oshkosh, we're looking for suggestions: What can we do to improve the AirVenture experience for teens, say ages 13-18?

Bill Greenwood
04-30-2012, 01:26 PM
Get them some cockpit time in some great planes, and get each of them a short flight in something. Obviously everyone can't get a B-17 or Stearman flight, but get them up in something. Really flying, not just talking about it or seeing the video. If there is a shortage of flights avialble , then I'd give priority to the older kids who are at the age to start taking lessons as it may mean more to them.

Maybe one day of the convention week Pioneer airport can be a real airport and do kids rides out of there , perhaps in some of the many Cubs. Or if you have to , get a bus and do some out of FLD. Or do them at 7 am or so on. Find a way.

And Hal, for those other people who don't really want to do this, they can find many, many excuses: it's too crowded, too many other things going on, it would interfere with the big money flights like the Socata and other advertisers, etc, on and on. Doesn't take much to say no.

Sitting on the ground and talking about flying is ok, but sort of like standing outside Krispy Kreme and watching someone else eat donuts.

Takes someone special or many someones to make it happen.

I only have my Bonanza this year, but I'd do some rides. I have done some Young Eagle rides at OSH.

Anymouse
04-30-2012, 01:39 PM
That's right in the glider solo range. Perhaps a way can be found to do some glider rides, and let the teens actually fly it. Sorta like discovery flights for gliders.

CarlOrton
04-30-2012, 02:04 PM
I agree with Bill. NOTHING compares to butts in seats. Look at how many stories we read in SA or AOPA or any flying mag about successful pilots who got their first flight as a YE.

I don't mean to sacrifice the cash cow here, but perhaps 1-2 days of the convention you could take a few hours and ground the helo's and fly the same circuit, but in a cub(s). That way, it would be out of the arrival traffic, wouldn't interfere w/airport ops, and would give a GREAT overall view of the event. Truly memorable. Or maybe extend it just a bit to give them some actual stick time. Might be too short a stint, but might be enough to get them started.

Perhaps have as a requirement to ride that they participate in a one hour "ground school" to get them ready. Teach them what they're going to see and do, and basic aircraft control. Could even have them build a small model with truly movable control surfaces so they could use it in other related studies.

Then, give them a free Sporty's Ground School password if they're, oh, say, 15+.

Prepare, Introductory flight, and Continue - hey, that's PIC!

Alternatively, perhaps set up an area where you can set up some of those (sorry, can't articulate what they really are) flight sim "seats". You know, the ones with the controls in a realistic setting, with 2-3 panel displays. Make it a dual-seat version with headsets and all, and let them book a 1-hour "flight" lesson with a real instructor. Perhaps isolate it just a bit so that you don't have little brother pestering his sister to do a roll or other distractions. Set it up so that it's pretty realistic. Could simulate a non-towered field, but would still allow the pilot to state their intentions on the "CTAF", etc. Tower scenarios might intimidate them too much.

Treat it just like a real flight, minus the preflight of course. Be able to set freq's, have some positive feedback controls to simulate air loads, etc.

malexander
04-30-2012, 03:27 PM
I'll get my 17 yr old daughter & her boyfriend to chime in here later (they're still at school now). I'll just let them tell you what they would like.

steveinindy
05-01-2012, 12:20 AM
What can we do to improve the AirVenture experience for teens, say ages 13-18?

I asked a couple of the kids in my neighborhood and basically they echoed Bill Greenwood's first point:


Get them some cockpit time in some great planes, and get each of them a short flight in something. Obviously everyone can't get a B-17 or Stearman flight, but get them up in something. Really flying, not just talking about it or seeing the video. If there is a shortage of flights avialble , then I'd give priority to the older kids who are at the age to start taking lessons as it may mean more to them.

The other suggestion from a slightly younger group (10-12) that we had previously asked something similar (how to get them more involved at a local airshow) was to have a "meet and greet" for the kids with a famous pilot (Sully was a common suggestion given that we were asking a few months after the Hudson incident). Just the pilot and the kids that way the kids get the chance to really ask questions, etc.

vaflier
05-01-2012, 07:17 PM
Ask for volunteer pilots to use their aircraft and have the worlds biggest Young Eagles Event !!!. There will be plenty of aircraft and I would bet you will get more volunteers than you can use. If I make it this year I would be happy to join in.

Rick Rademacher
05-02-2012, 08:01 AM
Could we have one or two Cubs in the grass where Rutans aircraft were parked on the edge of ConocoPhillips Plaza? Cubs could be rotated in and out for those that want to participate.

Kids in Cub for pictures and to explain
1.Fabric – be careful - metal or composite – name of aircraft – Cub
2.Kids climb in – keep door open – show how light – history of Cub
3.Prop - no key – don’t move
4.Flight controls - let them move joystick - take pictures
5.Do you understand controls? Shut door – go for a short flight – kids’ faces. Parents love this!
6.Door open in summer – closed in winter
7.Quiz kids and/or parents on fuel gage/indicator
8.Kids climb out – show rubber bands – bungee cords
9.Ask kids for name of aircraft they sat in
10.Hand out – Piper Cub water tattoo
11.Next –
When not flying Young Eagles, this is how I use my Cub. Over the last 17 years, I have had thousands in and out with no damage to the Cub

This suggestion was made last fall for the Cub 75th anniversary. Will this happen? No word yet from the EAA.

Rick at www.cubs2oshkosh.com (http://www.cubs2oshkosh.com)

Jim Clark
05-02-2012, 06:36 PM
I agree with Rick. In the congested OSH environment it would be tough to conduct flights but really easy to put kids in seats for photos. When I take my Waco's to events I do this and you wouldn't believe how many pics of kids in the pilot seat holding the yoke or stick with a headset on are posted to Facebook in an afternoon.

Bill Berson
05-02-2012, 06:52 PM
Maybe some time with a Radio Control Model with an experienced RC instructor using a trainer box.
Some of the new foam model are almost harmless in the event of crash. But with an instructor, the risk is minimal anyway.

RC models are a good affordable entry level for learning all about aviation.

Some professional RC demos might be good, as well.

steveinindy
05-02-2012, 07:24 PM
When I take my Waco's to events I do this and you wouldn't believe how many pics of kids in the pilot seat holding the yoke or stick with a headset on are posted to Facebook in an afternoon.

I'm 31 years old and I'd line up for that opportunity. Wacos are one of the most beautiful planes ever built hands down. Unfortunately we got news this past weekend that Oshkosh is out of the question for us this year as one of my fiancee's cousins is getting married during the time we would be out of town.

Rick Rademacher
05-02-2012, 08:23 PM
Bill,

I have asked Horizon Hobby and the local RC clubs to rent a gym, of which there are at least three, across from Taylor Hall in Kolf Sports Center. This would be perfect for evening flights without concerns for weather and nasty flying bugs. As many people stay in this dorm area and as transportation to and from this area is easy, why doesn't this happen?


I guess Jim and I will have to start a program of letting kids in historic aircraft while others put on RC activities in a rented gym.

CarlOrton
05-02-2012, 08:23 PM
Unfortunately we got news this past weekend that Oshkosh is out of the question for us this year as one of my fiancee's cousins is getting married during the time we would be out of town.
Obviously they're very insensitive to the priorities involved here. ;-)

I missed my brother-in-law's 3rd wedding for AirVenture. He told me to go for it - it wasn't like it was his first time or anything...

steveinindy
05-02-2012, 09:38 PM
Obviously they're very insensitive to the priorities involved here.

Eh, I don't think the bride and groom would notice we weren't there. As my fiancee puts it "I wouldn't know my cousin if she walked up to me on the street". My soon-to-be mother-in-law on the other hand is demanding our presence....something about family needing to stick together, blah, blah, blah.


I missed my brother-in-law's 3rd wedding for AirVenture. He told me to go for it - it wasn't like it was his first time or anything...

I missed Oshkosh for three years because of my girlfriend who later became my ex-wife. The month before the wedding she told me if I went to that year's festivities she would be gone by the time I got back. I should have attended because I ended up moving out of our apartment approximately three months after the wedding because of the way I was being treated.

Bill Berson
05-03-2012, 08:57 AM
Rick,

Indoor model activity is good. But I was suggesting outdoor flying with foam models, to get more crowd interaction.
Bill

Rick Rademacher
05-03-2012, 10:05 AM
Bill,

There is so much to do during the day at AirVenture, that evening activities could be enhanced by letting RC enthusiasts fly in a local gym. I have taken my Vapor and other small RC birds to Oshkosh for the past four years. I fly the Vapor outside and then in the lobby of Taylor when the night bugs come out to attack.

Many kids and older pilots would enjoy flying RC or just watching if given the opportunity. Evening RC events might attract large crowds at a time when the field is quite.

As Horizon AS3X technology evolves, it may be easier to fly smaller foam aircraft outside will less risks to the public in crowded environments.

Yes, RC aircraft is fun to watch and fly both inside and outside. Just be careful of those larger UAVs.

Bill Greenwood
05-03-2012, 11:50 AM
It is not Radio Control, but EAA does or at least did have a really good model flying program. They have gasoline powered line control models flying right behind the museum out on the grass at Pioneer Airport. Kids just walk up and get in line at the table, and when it is their turn they get to fly the model for a few minutes dual with an instructor, and I think it is free.

I would really like to try R C flying with one of the dual control boxes, myself.

By the way, I have 2 brand new in the box, never flown or even run, Cox .049 Mustang and Spitfire. I have flown a simple line control Cub myself, but I don't really want to try these and risk wrecking them. I have been told they are very fast and not sure if I am up to spinning around that many times that quickly.

malexander
05-03-2012, 02:11 PM
It is not Radio Control, but EAA does or at least did have a really good model flying program. They have gasoline powered line control models flying right behind the museum out on the grass at Pioneer Airport. Kids just walk up and get in line at the table, and when it is their turn they get to fly the model for a few minutes dual with an instructor, and I think it is free.

I would really like to try R C flying with one of the dual control boxes, myself.

By the way, I have 2 brand new in the box, never flown or even run, Cox .049 Mustang and Spitfire. I have flown a simple line control Cub myself, but I don't really want to try these and risk wrecking them. I have been told they are very fast and not sure if I am up to spinning around that many times that quickly.


If these are original, old Cox airplanes, hang onto them, they're probably collectors items.
I've flown lots of C/L & still fly R/C. Lots of fun. You'd be surprised at how flying R/C and being a pilot, you can relate one to the other when you're flying either one. I hope all this made sense.

TheGreatFlight
05-03-2012, 05:23 PM
A good resource would be the Air Academy campers coming in next month. I'm sure they could give you guys a ton of ideas on things they'd like to see/do.

arbroker
05-03-2012, 07:14 PM
In thinking about the young people that come to Oshkosh, we're looking for suggestions: What can we do to improve the AirVenture experience for teens, say ages 13-18?

Kids will go nuts over the thought of taking off from their driveway, flying just above the trees, under 50 mph, in an absolutely safe vehicle. Take a look at my site and let me know if I can help.

Rob Flansburg
05-08-2012, 09:04 AM
Hal,
My son (now 15) and I have made the trip to OSH with the Bonanzas to Oshkosh group for the past four years. The manner in which this group honors the kids is very special. They truly understand that these kids are the future of B2OSH. My son is already talking about flying grandpa's F33 to Osh in future years. This trip is the highlight of his summer. Bailey has friends that he only sees for 4-5 days a year. The fellowship with these kids and airplanes (duh) is what makes Airventure special for him. I believe an area where teenagers could come together to hang out, fly sims, signup for Young Eagle flights, listen to music, play video games and meet kids from around the country would be well attended. The friendships that would be made could last lifetimes. The idea of indoor RC is nice as well. This is one aspect of RC (indoor flying) that we have yet to experience. Thank you for your commitment to the future of aviation!!

Rob

steveinindy
05-08-2012, 10:47 PM
in an absolutely safe vehicle

There is no such thing. Nothing is absolutely safe. ;)

Sawdust
05-15-2012, 11:25 PM
I agree with the other posts here about getting these young people in planes, but I have one basic suggestion in response to your original question about making the "experience" better (the whole experience - not just direct exposure to planes and plane people). Connectivity - this age group absolutely lives, socializes, and communicates through their mobile devices. It may sound trivial, but for my son who started attending at age 16, being a full week with minimal connectivity was an issue. Fortunately he really loves airplanes, so he dealt with it, but I assure you his experience, and how much he shares it with others his age, would be greatly enhanced with better connectivity across the grounds. It was much better last year, but still marginal compared to what many of this age group are used to.

Gently56
05-22-2012, 02:30 PM
I know this is a day late and a dollar short, but would it not be in Avaitons interest to have a "show and tell" in the tower? We all love to fly, or we would not be excited about AirVenture at all, but what about showing what actually is involved from the control towers, ground, Center and things of that nature points of view. We all have horror stories of some type of incident from our friends in the tower or at ground control or even center! lets let the kids see exactly why so they will become BETTER pilots or even go into that field (who says you cant fly and work in the tower/ground/center)

malexander
05-28-2012, 07:20 PM
I'll get my 17 yr old daughter & her boyfriend to chime in here later (they're still at school now). I'll just let them tell you what they would like.



Hello, my name is Trenton. I am 18 years old and have been going with malexander and his family for three years now. I think it would be cool to have an area for older teens to hang out, fly some simulators; ie 172, 150, etc. (something realistic for a student), and meet other kids our age with a passion to fly. Personally, every year I go I would like to fly the simulators in the hangers, but a majority won't let you do that if you are not a licensed pilot. To have an area where we could do that and get instruction on how to fly would be awesome.
Also an inside look of the world's busiest control tower would be cool. We all can hear it on the hand held, but getting to experience it would be insightful.
And lastly (for now) maybe a behind the scenes look of how the airshow itself works, like hearing from the air boss, the brefing, and things of the such would be nice.

FlyingRon
05-28-2012, 07:46 PM
Well if you figure out a way to get more 13-18 year old girls to come, I'm sure that would take care of the 13-18 year old boy.
My 15 yo son found a same aged girl the first day he hit the show and we hardly saw him for the duration!

malexander
05-29-2012, 03:20 AM
Well if you figure out a way to get more 13-18 year old girls to come, I'm sure that would take care of the 13-18 year old boy.
My 15 yo son found a same aged girl the first day he hit the show and we hardly saw him for the duration!


That's one of the reasons Trenton goes with us (my daughter).:) Hal asked what the teens would like, so I had him chime in. I've been going to OSH for the past 10 years. I see "kids" of all ages.......girls included. :rollseyes:

Fred Stadler
05-29-2012, 05:36 AM
An inside look of the world's busiest control tower would be cool. We all can hear it on the hand held, but getting to experience it would be insightful.
And lastly (for now) maybe a behind the scenes look of how the airshow itself works, like hearing from the air boss, the brefing, and things of the such would be nice.
Trenton, there is a great way to be on the "inside" of the show and also meet others your age: volunteer. At Flight Line Operations, young people aged 16 and up can work on crews parking aircraft in the North Forty. Crews are briefed before each shift and work together as teams. Volunteers who are 18 can assist with directing traffic on the Oshkosh taxiways. The Vintage and Custom Parking areas have similar volunteer opportunities. This is a great way to find new friends and be part of making the event happen.

Bill Greenwood
05-30-2012, 09:07 AM
Hal, is there a centrally located tent just for teenagers? If not, perhaps there should be. No adults inside or very few just outside. Maybe some free bottled water or lemonade, or even snack, plenty of chairs. And a real restroom would be very popular with girls of all ages. Maybe a few tvs that show some of the happenings at several prime spots on the airport.
Of course where to have the tent is a question. maybe they even need two , one near warbirds and the north and one down south by the shops or classic/antiques/acro.
I think this very important, right up there with having the kids be able to fly.

One nice thing about Oshkosh, is unlike so many places in todays dirty world, a parent doesn't reallyhave to worry about the safety of a kid at EAA once they are 13 or 14.You can give em about $10-15 , a hat and sunglasses, ( yes they need both, just like adults) cautiion them not to go on active taxiways or near turning props, and how to get around and where and when to meet you and they can have as much free time as they need.

"Sawdust" suggest connectivety, whatever that is, but I hope kids would be more interested in airplanes than cell phones and Ipads. Maybe it does help if they can call each other on their cell phone, not my cup of tea ,but I know some people who think you can't live without them.

Rob Flansburg
05-30-2012, 09:25 AM
Hal, is there a centrally located tent just for teenagers? If not, perhaps there should be. No adults inside or very few just outside. Maybe some free bottled water or lemonade, or even snack, plenty of chairs. And a real restroom would be very popular with girls of all ages. Maybe a few tvs that show some of the happenings at several prime spots on the airport.
Of course where to have the tent is a question. maybe they even need two , one near warbirds and the north and one down south by the shops or classic/antiques/acro.
I think this very important, right up there with having the kids be able to fly.

One nice thing about Oshkosh, is unlike so many places in todays dirty world, a parent doesn't reallyhave to worry about the safety of a kid at EAA once they are 13 or 14.You can give em about $10-15 , a hat and sunglasses, ( yes they need both, just like adults) cautiion them not to go on active taxiways or near turning props, and how to get around and where and when to meet you and they can have as much free time as they need.

"Sawdust" suggest connectivety, whatever that is, but I hope kids would be more interested in airplanes than cell phones and Ipads. Maybe it does help if they can call each other on their cell phone, not my cup of tea ,but I know some people who think you can't live without them.

This is why my son loves the trip to Osh every summer. I have been turning him loose since he was 11-12. So much freedom and the relationships he has made with the other B2OSH kids. This idea of a tent for teenagers to hang out is great. The relationships that are started at Airventure will last a lifetime. Kinda llike a fraternity (or sorority). Please let us parents know what we can do to support your efforts.

Hal Bryan
05-30-2012, 09:44 AM
Hal, is there a centrally located tent just for teenagers? If not, perhaps there should be. No adults inside or very few just outside.

This was one of the key motivations behind the question - should we do more to provide (a) place(s) like this for this age group. I'm really glad to see this thread continuing, including a special guest appearance by an actual teenager! :) (Thank you Trenton and Malaxender!)

Please keep the ideas coming.

Thanks!

Hal

Zack Baughman
05-30-2012, 10:45 AM
I was always one of those kids attracted to the warbirds (and still am) - how about arranging for one of the warbirds to be available some afternoon or evening for a special teens only "Warbirds in Review" type event, including a chance to sit in the cockpit? Don't get me wrong, I love the vintage planes as well, but the warbirds tend to be a bit more robust and more likely to handle a bunch of young adults climbing in and out of them. Just a thought.

Zack

malexander
05-30-2012, 07:29 PM
I was always one of those kids attracted to the warbirds (and still am) - how about arranging for one of the warbirds to be available some afternoon or evening for a special teens only "Warbirds in Review" type event, including a chance to sit in the cockpit? Don't get me wrong, I love the vintage planes as well, but the warbirds tend to be a bit more robust and more likely to handle a bunch of young adults climbing in and out of them. Just a thought.

Zack

A couple of years ago, the kids (and adults) got to do this in a P51. I think it was "Quick Silver" we've still got our daughters pictures in it.
The deal with the "teens only" tent is grand idea, to me. It'd be the perfect place for the sims & instructors.
Now, as for turning the kid loose, I've done this with our daughters since they were 12 or 13. We've stayed at Sleepy Hollow campground since we started going
to OSH 10 years ago. We have never felt we needed to be concerned about their safety walking to & from the show from the campground. Our kids have ALWAYS felt safe while at OSH and have never been worried about going somewhere around the grounds alone, it's altogether a different mentality of people there.

Bill Greenwood
05-31-2012, 09:38 AM
Zack, I think that is a good idea for teenagers to see some warbirds up close. A few years ago at Sun N Fun, they had a small tram for some foreign vips to drive around the warbird area and were given the basics of different planes. I was one the volunteers that did that a bit. I would be glad to do it at Osh this year,either on a tram or on foot. I don't know all the gist about every type of plane , but can give some info on most of them. I think a lot of young people are more interested in looking rather than listening too much.
I think if you asked for volunteer owners when the pilots register at warbirds you'd get a good response, especially for the larger bombers/C-47 that are easy for people to climb in .
One year when my Son Charles was about 11, he spent an hour with Connie Edwards at his seaplane and being entertained by Connie's many stories, some of which may even have been true.

And we are all teenagers, some of us have been so for decades. When you quit being young you are on your way out.