New iPad iPhone efis app

[Todd copeland]

This is amazing! $8.99 for this app is an incredible buy what a great safety backup. I can't wait to try it out tomorrow in the air and see how well it actualy functions. I will try to report back on it.http://logical-drive.com/pockethorizon/

[FlyingRon]

Reading their FAQ page I have my doubts. Frankly, I've had some other ones of these and trying to hand hold the iPhone and get something useful out of the accelerometers to drive a AI-like display is next to impossible. They grease around this by using the GPS to catch turns as well. The statement that it doesn't agree with "other gyro instruments" in the plane and fails to work on the ground, really make me think it is little more a simulation of what an AI might display.

You probably would do better with just learning to properly fly partial panel (possibly augmented by the standard apple compass app).

[Todd copeland]

The website is very clear that you must have a way of mounting the unit to the panel for it to function properly. While everyone that flys IMC should practice partial panel I believe this is a viable way to keep the right side up if the chips are down. Partial panel is a secondary option but I for one prefer to have another artificial horizon.

[FlyingRon]

So buy a secondary AI, or a rate based autopilot from a separtely derived power source, or get one of the accellerometer boxes that is specifically designed for this. I'm not sure that a device that "displays different indications than normal aircraft gyros" is going to be real reliable especially in an unusual attitude. For what it's worth, you can just zoom up your GPS and follow the purple line pretty well partial panel as well.

[Todd copeland]

Well, I guess we just disagree. This is a $9.00option that is a very simple insurance policy for an emergency situation. Of course there are many alternatives to it, some much more expensive and better. That is not the point. This is one option that I think is a very inexpensive option that I welcome into my cockpit for a little added security.

[kedens]

Thanks Todd for posting. I just downloaded this and it looks promising. Didn't cost much more than one gallon of 100LL

[TedC]

Reading their FAQ page I have my doubts. Frankly, I've had some other ones of these and trying to hand hold the iPhone and get something useful out of the accelerometers to drive a AI-like display is next to impossible. They grease around this by using the GPS to catch turns as well. The statement that it doesn't agree with "other gyro instruments" in the plane and fails to work on the ground, really make me think it is little more a simulation of what an AI might display.
So buy a secondary AI, or a rate based autopilot from a separtely derived power source, or get one of the accellerometer boxes that is specifically designed for this. I'm not sure that a device that "displays different indications than normal aircraft gyros" is going to be real reliable especially in an unusual attitude. For what it's worth, you can just zoom up your GPS and follow the purple line pretty well partial panel as well.

Hello Ron,

We're the makers of the PocketHorizon app, and I just wanted to point out a couple of things I believe you misunderstood after reading our website, or things we didn't make clear.

- PocketHorizon does not use the accelerometer for anything; it's all the Gyro and GPS. GPS is used to constantly calibrate the Gyro system, as well as provide the full calculated attitude in non-Gyro devices. In either case the attitude is very accurate and consistent.
- We've tried the 'other ones', too, and in our experience they simple don't work, and in fact would be considered dangerous if it wasn't so immediately obvious that they don't work. That's why we created a real artificial horizon app that really works. I assure you it's not a simulation.
- When we say it doesn't exactly agree with other gyro instruments we're simply acknowledging that the attitude information is derived in a different way (using a combination of gyro and calculations from GPS) and while this will obviously not perfectly match an old-fashioned Attitude Indicator (which has its own imperfections in attitude), it gets the stated job done - helping you keep the shiny side up.
- As for unusual attitudes, we clearly state in many places on the web (and now in the app's Help as well) that it's not for aerobatics, mainly because it won't work if you're upside down. That's just a limitation of our technology; if it's a problem for you, you don't want our app. But if you want an app that does what it says it does, for way less money than buying a 'rate based autopilot from a separately derived power source' that you suggest, we recommend giving PocketHorizon a try!

Thanks for listening--
Ted Cannaday
President
Logical Drive Inc.

[P Frey]

Thanks for clearing that up Ted, I just bought the app and can't wait to try it.

[flybuddy]

Thanks for clearing that up Ted, I just bought the app and can't wait to try it.

Please post a review after you try it out. They have no reviews on it at the app store..thx

[Rootski]

I know nothing about the app, but it's pretty classy that the president of the company came in here to address a potential customer's concerns. I like that. Aviation needs more of that.

[TedC]

Please post a review after you try it out. They have no reviews on it at the app store..thx

Actually we have four reviews, all 5-stars, but no 'Rating' yet (not enough reviews). You can see the latest review on the iTunes website (click the App Store link on our website), but to see the old ones (older than the latest version) you have to use the iTunes app itself on your computer and select 'All Versions' down in the review section, or go to the App Store on your device (click the right arrow down below the screenshots where it says, 'No Ratings'). Actually that latest review is an update from an earlier reviewer (full disclosure).

Ted
http://logical-drive.com/pockethorizon/

[flybuddy]

Thank you...I purchased the app today

[flybuddy]

Flew with it this morning..On the Iphone 4S it worked fairly well with no additional gps input even mounted at a slight angle under the glareshield. Tried it out on the Ipad which is panel mounted and GPS/ADSB is driven by Skyradar via wifi. Unfortunately it did not recognize the skyradar gps so I couldn't use it. Also it seemed to prefer a portrait mounting position over landscape.
Bottom line is that it's only $8.99 and actually worked on the Iphone. It's a nice screen and I'd bet it would work very well on an Ipad with one of the external GPS units. It's worth it.

[TedC]

Flew with it this morning..On the Iphone 4S it worked fairly well with no additional gps input even mounted at a slight angle under the glareshield. Tried it out on the Ipad which is panel mounted and GPS/ADSB is driven by Skyradar via wifi. Unfortunately it did not recognize the skyradar gps so I couldn't use it. Also it seemed to prefer a portrait mounting position over landscape.
Bottom line is that it's only $8.99 and actually worked on the Iphone. It's a nice screen and I'd bet it would work very well on an Ipad with one of the external GPS units. It's worth it.

Thanks for the purchase, and for your comments. Yes, the issue with SkyRadar is that its GPS only works with apps that specifically connect to it using its special protocol; it's not like other external GPS units that connect directly to the Apple device, which then provides GPS info to any and all apps that need it. As it turns out, we're currently working with a SkyRadar unit for acquiring weather in a future app. Since you've commented that you'd like to use the GPS from a SkyRadar we're going to look into that, and see if we can go ahead and connect to it now for just GPS info (since PocketHorizon doesn't need weather). So, thanks for the (indirect) suggestion.

As for preferring Portrait mode over Landscape, I assume you mean that all the settings screens and alert messages are Portrait-only. It operates fine in Landscape mode, but if we don't change those other screens and especially alerts to Landscape mode then you get more screen real estate in Landscape (the status bar stays on the left, allowing the horizon marks and symbols themselves to be larger). It's all intentional.

Ted

[Burtles]

Can anyone recommend a panel mount for an iPhone 4? Not a suction mount, I'm looking for something that will mount it flush to the panel.

[TedC]

Can anyone recommend a panel mount for an iPhone 4? Not a suction mount, I'm looking for something that will mount it flush to the panel.

I talked with AirGizmos at Oshkosh about an iPhone panel mount like their Garmin 496 mount, and they said they tried an iPod mount a few years ago but Apple changes its designs so often that they can't justify the tooling cost of keeping up, considering the number of sales they might get. So, don't look for one from them any time soon. If you really want something and you're handy with tools you could probably make it from RAM parts. They (and others) have holders for various iOS devices that could probably be mounted with modification, allowing removal of the device as desired.

Ted

[flybuddy]

Most folks are loathe to do this BUT I put a piece of velcro on the back of my 4S and I stick it to the panel. I also have a flat mount with velcro on my motorcycle. It really makes life easy, just don't cover the camera lens.
Also, TedC, thx for looking into the Skyradar gps issue.

[TedC]

Also, TedC, thx for looking into the Skyradar gps issue.

Update: We have now fully tested the SkyRadar GPS with PocketHorizon, but it's not going to work for us. Here's the main problem: SkyRadar uses the standard ADS-B data protocol "GDL90", which specifies altitude in increments of 25 feet, with no way to show changes any smaller than that. This is WAY too coarse for the needs of PocketHorizon, and ends up making Pitch jump up and down constantly during a climb. So, unfortunately, SkyRadar isn't going to be supported as a GPS source. We haven't yet tested any other ADS-B GPS's, but if they use GDL90, as most do, they'll have the same problem. Sorry.

Ted Cannaday
http://logical-drive.com

[jonnyflyby]

Does the app have the general information found on it like airspeed, altitude, heading.. ect?