HA! you THOUGHT I would just go away!!

[Gently56]

O.K. after getting some nice replies from my last post I hit the books! well actually, the web for some information about best type E-LSA to suit me.

I looked at the following criteria:

Kit cost
Engines and cost
Reliability
Included "extras"
Extra cost items
Durability
Ease of repair
Limitations
Certification

*Notes and clarifications
I chose to use the Aeromax Corvair engine with a 3 bladed prop. For me it is a simple straight foreward engine. It has its limitation for a 100hp engine, but it seems that a lot of people have had no major issues, with a good support base and easily available parts. But as with all A/C engines cost and reliability is a major factor. I have found that this can be purchased as a complete unit, engine, 3 bladed prop, and every thing to make it go VAROOOM, for about 15000.00 or 9,950 for just the engine.

I have not addressed the avionics issue, but certain kits come either with or at a reduced cost insturments and some avionics. So the prices reflected, unless noted, will be sans avionics and instruments.

Now the good stuff!

Name---------------------Kit cost----- Engine and props------ Avionics included (yes/ no)-----Total Cost

Zenith Ch-750----------- 22,339.00---- 15,000.00 -------------No-------------------------------37,379.00

KitFox S7S ---------------22,791.00---- 15,000.00------------- No------------------------------ 37,791.00

Just Highlander---------- 23,850.00---- 15,000.00------------- No------------------------------ 38,850.00

SkyRanger V-MAX------- 24,386.00---- 15,000.00 -------------No, $2,095 option------------- 39,368.00

SkyKit Savahanna VG--- 29,995.00---- 15,000.00--------------Yes,----------------------------43,495.00

These are either metal or tube and cloth, I never have worked with tube and cloth but I feel as if they could do it in the earlier days (1900's and up) I should, with proper instruction, be able to complete the job. I have worked with metal (BUT I cannot weld for crap, but I know quite a few who can!)

I am sure now that I have done this search and posted real time (as this date) cost I am sure somebody will say "Jeesh, dude ya missed this one!" I am not interested in an aircraft that is compsite (yet) or flies a zillion miles and hour. Notice all of these aircraft have one thing in common, High wing, slow, utility LSA compatable.

I am really looking at the Savahanna with the avionics package from SkyRanger (EFIS) Or other like packages.


O.K. Ya'll can hit me with yo'uns best shot!

Mike
PKB (thats Parkersburg West Virginia, Gill Rob Field)

[Dave Prizio]

Looking at your list I would suggest you also consider the RANS S-7S. It is a good kit with a lot of planes flying and good builder support.

BTW, these are actually experimental amateur built kits can be built and operated in compliance with light sport rules. There is actually only one E-LSA kit available, which is the Vans RV-12. It may seem like a small distinction, but there are very different rules that apply to E-LSA vs. E-AB.

Dave Prizio

[Eric Witherspoon]

I still think, even with all those "criteria looked at", that your decision can be made without spreadsheets and calculations. You present data there that essentially proves that cost is a wash. Those numbers are all so close together that a mistake or do-over here or there, and some different choices about what goes in the panel - they are all "the same" cost. So without that, here's what I would decide on:
1. Which one "grabs you"? Which one "just looks right"? Which one do you want to be seen in and strikes you as something you want to work on for many, many hours?
2. Which factory communicates with you the best? Do you care if they take a while to return email, never answer the phone, are on the other side of the world from you? Or would you prefer to be able to easily drive/fly there - not only to pick up your kit, but to participate in their open-house days and/or fly-ins?
3. Which builder community fits you the best? Is there a large, active, type-specific forum with hundreds of postings per week? Are there hundreds of builder websites? Is any of that even important to you? Do you want something you won't ever see at another airport or fly-in? Do builders host regional fly-ins for the type? Is it easy to find other builders/flyers of the type? Do they let you look at their airplanes, much less offer a ride? Can you get a ride in any of them?

You can look at "objective" criteria until you go crazy. As you have found, it's not that hard of a project to design a 100-hp 2-seat STOL/unimproved field airplane. So I think it comes down to the "softer stuff" I described above.

Go to some regional fly-ins. Go to Oshkosh. Meet the people. Sit in the planes. See what really "fits" for you. If, after some actual in-the-airplane research, they're all still about the same, then it comes down to a combination of looks and little features that YOU think design A has done "better" than design B. Some of this might be easy - I got in and scraped the heck out of my leg. I got in and banged my head. I got in and couldn't reach this or that. I got in, and this or that was right up in my face. It's practically impossible to "find" these kinds of things looking at pictures and marketing websites. Some stuff looks great online, but doesn't fit you at all when you get there... Then there's other stuff you discover by being there that you don't notice (or they don't point out) in the marketing materials. Oh, this one features a fixed seat, but adjustable rudder pedals - that fit REALLY well, and was easy for other people to jump in, adjust, and fly. That flap handle was REALLY convenient. I LIKE the way they did the brakes. The visibility out of that one was awesome. That one, I could see nothing but wing. The seat in that one - if it's that uncomfortable in 2 minutes on the ground...

[LostUpNorth]

So if I understand the mission, it's a low slow STOL type aircraft. Allow me to throw another option into the mix. An all wood airplane:
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=8111/index.html

(http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=8111/index.html)The scrunched up picture doesn't do the plane justice. Here's a better photo.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/showfull.php?photo=33487

(http://www.supercub.org/photopost/showfull.php?photo=33487)If you want side by side seating LMA also has a Taylor Craft replica. You can see that on the Wick's site as well.

I hope that helps. Happy building!

[Bill Barker]

If you are interested in the Corvair Engine (a fine choice), you really should study up on the William Wynne Corvair Engines.
www.flycorvair.com/ (http://www.flycorvair.com/)
The more I read his website and purchased materials, the more I would trust my life to his well developed engines.
No financial interest in his company, but very interested in his business practices.

[Hal Bryan]

You might also want to sit on on this Webinar we've got coming up in a couple of months:

https://www2.gotomeeting.com/register/515795618

[Gently56]

Thanks for the replies,

Dave: I am unsure what you mean in reference to a E-AB (Unless it means Experimental-Amature Built) if you could, I would appreciate, where I can find info on this designation. I will look athe Rans S7S as soon as I can. I am interested in the LSA due to "constraints" of the FAA.

Eric, You are also correct, I am in West Virginia (right on the Ohio Border and actually own a farm in Ohio) and distance does matter. I intend to try to see, in person, all that I can see and set in along with hopefully finding one I can fly in (as a passenger) But from what I can tell the best place for this without traveling all across the country is Oskosh. I am going to attemp to drive up there this year just to look at the aircraft that are out there. as I am now retired I actually have the time to go places!

LostupNorth, I was never a fan of the cub (GASP!!! OMG! just kidding) one of my perameters I failed to put in the criteria section was an "expandable" aircraft. An Aircraft that if the LSA gross goes up the aircraft can be modified to fit the upgrade. I have a Private pilot (Sel) but due to a "FAA medical Issue" well lets say my medical has lapsed, by advice of an AME friend. (I take one pill a day, but that is a whole other story and I digress).

Bill, That is why I picked the Corvair conversion, I have built and major overhauled a lot of engines both car and a TCM GO-300 and a Lycoming O-360 aircraft engines (aircraft under supervision when I was working on my A&P at my FBO) so I understand the concept and mechanical functions, best of all the simplicityof the corvair engines.


Hal thanks for the heads up on the meeting I will look into it, sounds great!

Any other suggestions from any and all would be appreciated, once again thanks!

Mike.

[Dave Prizio]

Sorry for the shorthand. I just assumed that in this context it would be apparent what E-AB meant, which is as you deduced 'Experimental Amateur Built.'

Dave Prizio

[S3flyer]

Also,a E-AB plane may be sport pilot eligible if it adheres to the LSA specs (1320lbs MTOW, 45 knt stall, 120 KCAS maximum sea-level speed, 2 seater, etc.). In other words, it does not have to be E-LSA for a sport pilot to legally fly it.

[Eric Witherspoon]

Mike,
You could try www.eaa.org (http://www.eaa.org) under calendar of events and search there. It's showing 1 in WV, 18 in Ohio, and the nearest "major regional" event is Suffolk, VA, April 28-29. Among all those, there will probably be an event closer/sooner that might have at least some of what you're looking for...