Dispensing/transporting avgas and the FAR's

[djml642]

For seven years my FBO has filled my six red gasoline containers for a total of 30 gal per visit transported in my pickup. I then transfer it to my Safari helo as I need it. Five days ago I was told they would only pump directly into the helo in the future. That creates potentially dangerous situations for me, incredible inconvenience and real loss of services for the non-profits and public agencies for which I fly gratis.

I could not understand the mumblings of the FBO owner over the phone when I aked for a clarification.

I've been six years straight to Oshkosh, won silver Lindy in '06, and always refueled by Basler into the five gallon containers transported there by myself and fellow pilots.

Oshkosh is run by the book.

There's a company in NC, near Greensboro that markets a 300gallon, single axle fuel trailer which they indicate on their website to be legal for avgas.

The FBO I called that handles avgas at the Oswego Co. airport said they would not pump into a traier because it is a violation of the FAR's.

Basler, at Oshkosh, filled the 100 gal trailer many times during Airventure '11 from which I was refueled.

I need help finding out what the FAR's say about avgas dispensing into containers and trailers and the transporting of it thereafter.

[nrpetersen]

I don't think it is the FARs - rather the EPA that has like a $200,000 fine for anyone dispensing leaded fuels into anything except an airplane's tank. Can anyone confirm that?

[CarlOrton]

Somewhat related question: Has anyone ever been hassled for pumping avgas into a jerry can to take home in order to calibrate their experimental's fuel sensor? Or to perform first engine start? I did it only once; got very odd looks from the FBO (self-serve fuel), but nothing was said.

[martymayes]

Tell them to show you the FAR.

I don't think the EPA has such a rule.
In the 1996 phaseout of leaded fuel, EPA exempted certain activities. Besides aviation, vehicles for off-road purposes like racing cars, farm equipment, and marine engines can use leaded fuel. Several gas stations where I live still sell leaded fuel for "off-road" use only. Some of the brands are VP, Sunoco, Torco, etc. I believe NASCAR switched to unleaded fuel in 2008.

Just get an old cherokee gas tank and put it in the back of your truck. Not much they could say then cause it's going directly into an airplane gas tank.

[Mike M]

Tell them to show you the FAR. I don't think the EPA has such a rule.

40 CFR 80.173(b)(1) is all i've found so far. but i've seen fresh signs at a nearby airport saying they can't sell any fuel that's going off-airport. making the airboat guys mad. next time i'm there when the office is open i'll ask for their reference.

[martymayes]

40 CFR 80.173(b)(1) is all i've found so far.

That reg has been on the books since 1996. Nothing new here to see.


but i've seen fresh signs at a nearby airport saying they can't sell any fuel that's going off-airport.

Wonder what they going to tell the transient pilot that wants a top-off.

[Dana]

Nothing in the FAR's about dispensing avgas into cans... if it's not going into a plane the FAR's don't cover anything that happens on the ground. Even that EPA rule referenced above doesn't apply to the end user (you and me).

My local airport has no problem selling avgas into cans; some of the PPG guys run avgas and I like to run avgas in my ultralight in the winter (keeps better)... I pump it into a can so I can mix the oil into it. Some guys bring their cigarette boats in for gas, too.

A friend had a chopper that he kept a 200 gallon trailer tank full of Jet-A for, since the airport he kept it at didn't sell jet fuel.

If anything, it might be an insurance requirement restricting fuel sales. Probably the same mentality that makes self service gasoline illegal in NJ (because it's "dangerous").

[Joe Delene]

I would look to another airport with a 24 hour pump. I've done a few 5 gallon fuel cans at times to top off in the hanger. I or others have never had a problem with it at our local airport. If you go elsewhere you should be fine.

[rosiejerryrosie]

Wow! What a great spacesaving idea!! Could lower the cost of hangar rent.....

[Mike M]

I've done a few 5 gallon fuel cans at times to top off in the hanger.

most people don't admit fueling in the hangar. putting in five gallons of gas displaces five gallons of potentially explosive/flammable fumes.

1490

[tripilot]

The EPA has, as you may know, made container manufacturers comply with their new standards. New fuel containers are miserable to use, at best. For years (pre-ethanol) i hauled auto fuel onto my airport and pumped it into my Skyhawk via a 12v. electric pump. I would also buy 100LL and pump it into a five-gallon plastic fuel container for use in small power equipment at home. I would use it in my boat as well as sell it, at no profit to friends who wanted to use it as a stabilizer in their fuel tanks. It was never an issue.
Today, I will drive my motorcycle onto my local airport and buy either 100LL or MoGas with a credit card. I also fill my boat which holds 50 gallons for it's inboard engine and, their are many airboat guys who also fill up. It's good alternative business for the FBO.
I would think rather than worrying about FAR's and EPA, you should be concerned about hauling fuel on the road in "un-approved" or improperly secured/stored containers by local or state law enforcement. When I hauled fuel to the airport, I did so in a 55 gallon drum that was secured to a wooden platform by strapping. I could also remove the tank by sliding it out and onto a platform I built for it. The pump was installed in the side bung. I would cover it with a tarp when hauling it. Out of sight - out of mind. I'd look for another FBO if possible. Obviously, the one in question is not interested in making money. Best of luck!

[Joe Delene]

I never considered pouring 5-10 gallons in the plane while the hanger door was open to be 'hazardous'.

[exftrplt]

In some states the issue is highway motor fuel tax. If you fill the 5 gal. can at the airport you are not paying highway fuel tax and the jerry can could go into your pickup.

[vaflier]

The problem of selling fuel to be transported off airport recently arose out our local airport. A cropduster based at his own grass strip wanted to buy fuel in a portable tank to take home for his helicopter. The attendant refused to sell it to him. Needless to say he was not happy and rightfully so. As a member of our Airport Commision I was asked to intercede on his behalf. This was brought up at our monthly meeting a few days later. The concern of the airport Manager was basically the liability of selling fuel to someone to be transported over the road in their vehicle. While we all have to be concerned about liability these days, we should not let it scare us into doing nothing. Since there is no reason that we should refuse to work with an aircraft owner or pilot to sell them fuel for their aircraft or one they are using, the challenge becomes one of how can we do so and manage the liability involved. Once a person leaves our premises the whole issue becomes about transporting fuel over the road which falls under the DOT regulations. I proposed that we only dispense fuel into DOT aproved containers for aviation use only. The individual involved then has to give us a valid N number and sign a form accepting all responsibility for the transportation of the fuel. The feeling was that this would at least help to limit any liability on the part of the County which owns the airport, and allow us to accomodate the needs of the flying public with minimal inconvenience to the customer. This may not be a perfect solution and probably does not eliminate all liability but I beleive it is a good aproach. We have a responsibility to take good care of the members of the flying community and at the same time we have a duty to the citizens of our County to minmize the risk of lawsuits in our suit happy world. No one has to tell you that in todays world there are people just itching to sue someone. And if the local government is a viable target they will jump at the chance. Since NonEthenal fuel is available locally we have not had many requests for Non Aviation sales such as boats and lawnmowers. Just thought I would share the aproach we have taken , as it might be something that you could use to convince your airport management to implement at your local airport. Best of luck.Randy

[martymayes]

Once a person leaves our premises the whole issue becomes about transporting fuel over the road which falls under the DOT regulations.

I don't follow. What's the difference between an FBO dispensing fuel into a jerry can vs. a gas station dispensing fuel into a jerry can?

[vaflier]

There is no difference as long as it is an aproved container.. At least that is my opinion.

[nrpetersen]

The FBO might have deeper pockets & maybe less sympathy from a jury,,,,,,,

[Bill]

The FBO might have deeper pockets & maybe less sympathy from a jury,,,,,,,

In today's aviation economic climate, there can't be too many FBOs left that have deeper pockets (if they ever did).

[Joe Delene]

I agree, many regular gas stations may have 'deeper pockets' that the local FBO. Of course gas stations sell gas to patrons carried off in fuel cans 1000s of times a day. In this day & age though I don't really have a problem providing an 'N' number to where the fuel is going. It's a wonder we get anything done some times with all the liability worry.

[Mike Berg]

I've always wondered why we aren't allowed to deduct the road tax when we use mogas in our aircraft. Obviously the only road use it gets is in a 5 gallon can in the back of my pickup.

Mike

[Dana]

I don't know about other states, but here in Connecticut you can apply to the state once a year for a refund of the state portion of motor fuel taxes paid on fuel used for off highway use.

[Mike Berg]

Not in Wisconsin to my knowledge (someone please correct me) as when I had my Cherokee with the auto fuel STC I religiously kept track of it for a year and then was told I couldn't apply for a refund or deduct on my taxes.
Mike

[Frank Giger]

Here in Alabama it can only be waived for agricultural use.

[Mike M]

I've always wondered why we aren't allowed to deduct the road tax when we use mogas in our aircraft. Obviously the only road use it gets is in a 5 gallon can in the back of my pickup.

Mike

state by state thing, i bet. i know arizona and florida do it because i've lived both places. apply to state, they pull it from the road tax section, apply it to the aviation tax section (both state and federal), and refund the difference. at least, they say they move it from fund to fund, and i trust the government. if aviators don't file, or if the state doesn't allow us to file, then the aviation fund gets shortchanged when we use autogas in aircraft. not good.