EAA's Relationship with Boy Scouts of America

[Chris In Marshfield]

Morning all,

This question probably goes out to Rod Hightower, Jeff Skiles and Brian O'Lena. I was just listening to an interview with Rod at the LSA Expo on AvWeb here:

http://www.avweb.com/podcast/podcast/AudioPodcast_USSportAviationExpo_RodHightower_2060 57-1.html?kw=AVwebAudio

(http://www.avweb.com/podcast/podcast/AudioPodcast_USSportAviationExpo_RodHightower_2060 57-1.html?kw=AVwebAudio)In this interview, he describes a renewed relationship with BSA, and with their aviation-related programs. As an EAA chapter president, and a Boy Scout leader and Aviation Merit Badge Counselor, I'd like to hear more about what's in store for us here. Flying Boy Scouts has been a challenge for us in the past due to BSA rules/regs/requirements and lack of understanding by local BSA leaders, which Rod clearly mentions in his interview, and I've seen first-hand and discussed during the Chapter Leaders' Academy. Will we see more published in the near future on the subject? I'd love to relay some information to our Council on the subject, and have a meeting to discuss it with them.

Thanks and best regards,
Chris

Christopher Owens
President, EAA Chapter 992
BSA Aviation Merit Badge Counselor
BSA Pack/Troop 381
Marshfield, WI

[Hangar10]

This is perfect timing Chris... our chapter was just talking about getting more involved with Young Eagles this year and one of the specific topics was our relationship with BSA. Our YE Coordinator assured us that we were certainly allowed to work with the local scouts. Through his efforts and conversation with the local council he discovered that scouts are allowed to participate in YE and work towards their Aviation Merit Badge, but that they are not allowed to fly in experimental aircraft. I wonder if this might change? I haven't listened to the interview yet, but I will be paying attention to this thread for more details.

Thanks!

[Chris In Marshfield]

They also have a minimum pilot hours requirement, which YE doesn't have, either. And there's a *lot* of paperwork :-) But, in the end, when we had a big Aviation Camporee last fall, it was a resounding success with almost 90 Scouts flown and camping at the airport, everyone had a fantastic time!

~Chris

[CarlOrton]

Our Chapter (34) was invited by a local aerospace company to participate in "Aviation Merit Badge Day" at their facility back in September. There were over 240 Scouts, along with 30-40 adult chaperones. In addition to providing a presentation on EAA and recreational aviation, we were given a table to staff for the entire day. We brought along copies of our newsletter, along with EAA application information, YE information, and flyers from several kit plane mfgrs.

The Scouts were cycled through about 4-5 activities, like building a plane out of a paper plate, etc. We had the most foot traffic at our table during cycle changes. Surprisingly, we had more adults come by and engage us in detailed conversations than did the kids (and don't get me wrong - we had lots of them ask questions, too!).

Very rewarding for all parties involved. I've gotta say - given one's opinions that the youth of today are so different than *we* were at that age, all the Scouts involved in this event were top-quality individuals. Respectful, polite, and knowledgeable. I have renewed faith in our future.

We look forward to next year!

[rleffler]

As a former Aviation Explorer Post Advisor and former EAA Chapter VP, I've wrestled with these issues many times. Unfortunately, the BSA requirements were rather onerous and exceeded the YE requirements for hours required, insurance, and distance traveled. The Post particpated as ground crew at a fair number of YE events and that is where the formal oversight ended from a BSA perspective. If a Post member wanted to fly and had their parents signature outside the structured Post event, who was I to stop them. I just couldn't arrange for the flying trips as a Post Advisor. Of course, to no surprise of anyone hear, a large percentage of the Post members manage to fly the last couple flights after the formal YE event was completed. But that wasn't part of BSA arranged event so everyone was happy.

Our Post was invited by Hal Shever to participate in some activities with the Post based at Sportys. I had pilots arranged to fly the kids down, but couldn't get BSA approval because it was further than the distance allowed by BSA by about 10 miles.

I hope the new relationship convinces the BSA to relax their requirements so both Troops and Posts can actively fly in organized YE events.

[dusterpilot]

Our chapter flew approx. 300 Scouts during an aviation discovery day with several different sponsors and participants. Meeting the BSA pilot and aircraft requirements nearly forced us to cancel the event. However, a good attorney crafted a parental permission slip and release of liability that worked for everyone's satisfaction. The official scout event included only ground and simulator activities. The release of liability clearly stated that our EAA chapter was offering YE flights to the general public simultaneously with the Scout activities. If a scout chose to participate in the YE program they would be doing so as an individual under the official YE guideline which did not meet BSA requirements. The regional scout council was satisfied, our scouts and other YEs were happy, and our pilots were happy.

[steve]

When my old chapter flew YEs who were also Scouts, the scout leaders were asked that NO uniforms/uniform items be worn by the kids. Therefore BSA rules didn't apply to the event. As mentioned above, the BSA required copies of your PPL, medical cert, insurance coverage, and logbook on file.

[Dave Prizio]

On the plus side, it was cooperation between EAA and BSA that encouraged the BSA to even allow flying by Scouts in private planes after many years of banning such activity. So compared to what we once had (they even dropped Aviation Merit Badge for many years) we have it pretty good. On the other hand, the BSA paperwork is a pain in the rear and and offers no additional insurance coverage for your effort. BSA insurance coverage ends when the Scout gets in the plane, whether you have a BSA Flying Permit or not. Because of this many YE coordinators have simply stopped jumping through the BSA hoops.

If you want to do it by the book here is what BSA wants: Pilots need PPL or better with current medical and 250 hours TT, proof of current annual on airplane and proof of insurance. Copies of all of this must be turned in for each pilot. BTW, no experimentals allowed. Each Scout must have a BSA Flying Permission slip signed by both parents of possible. The troop also needs a BSA Flying Permit and a Local Tour Permit. If you have a big event with say 20 pilots and 100 kids, it is a real project to get all of this put together beforehand and turn it in for the Flying Permit.

After doing this for 8 years and about 1400 Scouts I found out about the lack of BSA insurance coverage and decided to stop bothering with all the extra work and just do the EAA paperwork, which we were doing anyway.

I am glad the Scouts have an Aviation Merit Badge and I am glad the EAA has a YE program that works so well to help Scouts earn the badge. I don't think BSA risk management will even soften their requirements, so I just don't worry about it. It's sort of a screwed up arrangement, but it we make it work.

[Bill Greenwood]

About 12 years ago I was a Cub Scout leader for my Son. We decided to do flights for his group of about 10 kids. I can't recall the details, but the national scout organization was negative on airplane flights, may have even prohibited them, and don't think they had any aviation merit badge.

So we just skipped all that bureacracy altogether. We did the flights in our J3 Cub,and did not call it a scout function, even though it was for the scout kids. I phoned each parent and asked for permission to have their son fly. Surprisingly there was virtually no resistance or hesitancy from the parents, all gave permission. Only one boy didn't fly, and that was because he himself was scared to go, his parents were fine with it.

We also took the entire class of my other Son flying, and as for as I remember there were no dropouts.

We didn't have, and didn't worry about any extra insurance. Maybe that is smart or not, but we were interested in flying, not letting obstacles stop us.

Of course when you fly non pilot passengers, especially children, SAFETY IS THE ONLY REAL CONSIDERATION THAT MATTERS, all else is secondary. When you fly, or even drive someone's else's child you are carrying their most precious thing and must make this the primary concern.

[Bill]

Of course when you fly non pilot passengers, especially children, SAFETY IS THE ONLY REAL CONSIDERATION THAT MATTERS, all else is secondary. When you fly, or even drive someone's else's child you are carrying their most precious thing and must make this the primary concern.

More years ago than I care to count, I was part of a Young Eagles flight event for Boy Scouts organized by one of the local scout troop leaders. They had so many scouts wanting rides that the scout master wanted us to load and unload the kids without shutting down our engines to speed things up.:mad: I immediately objected and refused to go it for safety reasons. All of the other pilots backed me and we had no turning props during loading and unloading. Even so, I flew 33 Young Eagles that day.

[Chris In Marshfield]

Thanks for all the input from the folks, like me, who've been there and done that. What I'd *love* to see is a program where we don't have to jump through hoops (too many, anyway) and circumvent the system just to get these kids flying! Yes, it stinks that it's such a PITA get Boy Scouts in the sky. And the fact that we are all passionate enough to find ways to do it is a testament to our dedication to EAA, the Young Eagles program, and the Scouting program.

I talked to Brian O'Lena the other day about it, and he's still gathering intel since folks have been on the road a fair amount as of late. I'm sure we'll be hearing more about it soon!

Thanks for the chat, Brian :D

~Chris