Ipad Readability in the cockpit

[Wilfred]

I am awaiting the release of Ipad 3 to see if there is an improvement over what many are criticizing as poor readability when the Ipad is in a bright light situation, such as an RV canopy, not just in full sunlight. I would appreciate comments from Ipad users who fly with it as to difficulty, if any, in reading the screen while in flight in a fairly light atmosphere such as my RV will have. (I plan, if I go ahead with the Ipad 3, to marry it to a SkyRadar ADS-B unit with WingX software...this looks good as a combination, but only IF I will be able to see it in daylight.)
Thanks for any input.

[KDoersom]

I gave an iPad 2. The best thing I ever did was get an anti glare screen protector for it. It makes the screen readable in all bit the worst conditions I imagine that the 3 will be the same.

[Dekef4]

I have been flying with the IPad2 in my RV6 for about 6 months. It is easy enought to read 90-95% of the time. it works well in all but direct sunlight at low sun angles, even then, it can be read with a slight adjustment to the angle. If you consider this along with the fact that when you really need to look at it you will likely be in the soup, ie no or reduced sun. the screen may be improved with the IPad 3 but, I think you will be pleased with either. You cannot beat the product utility that you get for a very low price!

[Wilfred]

Thanks for the input folks. Wilfred

[Anymouse]

I have the original iPad. Although the sun does affect the screen readability, it's good enough that it doesn't bother me in the least. I have an open view to the sky in my cockpit, so lot's of sunlight.

[Mike M]

when folks answer, it would help some of us (ok, me) if y'all would say which model iPad and what type aircraft. more than "mine works good for me the way i use it."

thanks

[tdm]

Unfortunately, the high ambient light fidelity of current transmissive modulatory LC displays is unlikely to increase significantly in the short term due to ambient light diffusion and contrast between voltage-on and off pixels. (the backlight still transmits even when all orthogonal liquid crystals are in the voltage -off state..)

Apple currently uses an LED backlit in-plane switching tft transmissive lc display for it's mobile products. Sunlight readability could be improved slightly if Apple switched to an emissive display, such as OLED, like Samsung's active matrix and "super" active matrix display technologies, but fidelity would still not be comparable to a transflective or reflective display.

[steveinindy]

Unfortunately, the high ambient light fidelity of current transmissive modulatory LC displays is unlikely to increase significantly in the short term due to ambient light diffusion and contrast between voltage-on and off pixels. (the backlight still transmits even when all orthogonal liquid crystals are in the voltage -off state..)

Apple currently uses an LED backlit in-plane switching tft transmissive lc display for it's mobile products. Sunlight readability could be improved slightly if Apple switched to an emissive display, such as OLED, like Samsung's active matrix and "super" active matrix display technologies, but fidelity would still not be comparable to a transflective or reflective display.

I'm reasonably certain at least part of that post was in English.... LOL As if I didn't feel out of touch with regards to technology before.....thanks TDM! LOL

[Chris In Marshfield]

There are a couple simple things that you can do depending on where the device is located. I run into this as well with any device I have mounted to the yoke of my plane (Piper Archer II). While I don't have one on my iPad, an antireflective screen protector helps. Works well on my iPhone, for sure.

The other thing I noticed, direct sunlight not withstanding, is that if I'm wearing a light colored shirt, the light shining on the screen keeping me from seeing it as well is actually being reflected off my shirt. I found that if I wear a darker shirt (one fellow I know of actually has a black "bib" that he wears while flying to minimize glare - not for me, though) the reflection is greatly minimized.

I realize that if you fly in a fishbowl-type aircraft like an RV, CX-4, or anything else with a bubble canopy, the last thing you're probably going to want to do is dress in black! My iFly 700 has a nice sunshade available for it, but I'm not sure how feasible that kind of device would be for an iPad, though. A quick Google search turned up this guy:

http://iclipsestore.com/
(http://iclipsestore.com/)
Seems a little (lot) bulky for an aircraft application, but wonder if something similar could be fashioned.

Chris

[KDoersom]

With the anti glare protector I have on my iPad 2 I have no trouble viewing it in the sun in the aircraft a fly: Cessna 172 182, Piper Navajo, Kingair 350. Also works equally as well in the car as a moving map gps. Best 10 bucks that I ever spent for it is a Griffen Anti Glare screen protector. Made a world of readability difference.

[Eric Marsh]

My experience is that when using polarized sunglasses the iPad is very difficult to view in portrait mode but easy in landscape. As a result I wrote my app to be viewed in landscape. Not sure about the others.

[Bill]

My experience is that when using polarized sunglasses the iPad is very difficult to view in portrait mode but easy in landscape. As a result I wrote my app to be viewed in landscape. Not sure about the others.

LCD displays consist of a (typically nematic) liquid that has properties of both a liquid and a crystal sandwiched between two 90-degree crossed polarizers. So the light from LCD displays will always be polarized in the orientation of the top layer's polarization axis. With OLEDs (Organic Light Emitting Diodes), polarization is random so the effect you're seeing with the LCD display won't happen.

As I recall, Apple had the same problem with early iPhones, but fixed the problem by rotating both polarizers' E-field axis by 45 degrees so that both landscape and display modes were affected equally. I imagine that no one from the iPhone group passed this tidbit of information to the iPad group (happens in large organizations).

[EDGEFLY]

I recently became aware of alleged poor performance of the internal GPS receivers in iPads to the extent that external devices are recommended to solve the problem. Although the interface of these devices to an iPad is simple (a USB or memory chip route), the devices themselves are not inexpensive, one being ~$100 or approximately the cost of major apps which have made the iPad solution so popular. Does anyone have personal
experience with this usage problem ? I am very interested inasmuch as I am on the verge of purchasing an iPad and either Wing ProX or Foreflight.

Edgefly

[KDoersom]

My iPad 2 is just the wifi version which is 130 cheaper than the 3G version which has the internal GPS. Pretty much every where I go has wifi and if it doesn't I just use my iPhone. For the gps I went with the bad elf which has worked great. It always locks on fast and it never losestjw signal. Since it plugs into and gets its power from the iPad there is also no need to charge it. The less I have to remember to do the better. I made a little holder for it that I glued to my iPad case to keep it from getting knocked loose. Apple doesn't allow locking devices any more. At 100 bucks it was still cheaper than the 3G model and works better. GI'll try and post some
Pics later as I can't on my iPhone.

[S3flyer]

Been flying with an iPad 3G and Foreflight for 18 months with absolutely no GPS issues. Tracks the same as my 496. Don't see the advantage of an external GPS. I believe Foreflight had concerns with accuracy when they geo-referenced approach plates so you may want to take that into consideration. Wasn't an issue for me.

[MickYoumans]

Edgefly, I use a 3G iPad 2 and the internal GPS has worked perfectly for me. I originally started out with a WiFi only iPad 1 with an external GNS-5870. Do yourself a favor and spend the extra for the 3G model. It has been so nice not having to deal with an extra piece of external GPS hardware and keeping it's battery charged. You do not have to activate the 3G service on your iPad for the GPS but it is nice to know that it is there if you ever decide you need or want it. I would suggest you go to YouTube and look at the WingX and Foreflight videos to help you decide between the programs. In addition both companies have a 30 day free trial where you can test them both head-to-head. I went with WingX because I thought if offered a lot more features for the money and it fit my flyng needs the best.

[Dekef4]

Sounds like KDoersom is trying to justify his purchase in his own mind. Have not had a single problem with the internal GPS in the 3G IPAD2. Not sure how he knows it works better when he doesn't own one! Definately more convenient.

[KDoersom]

Did a lot of research first. From what I read at higher altitudes and speeds the internal one can lose signal. I fly a Kingair 350 at work an we fly high at 20000 and above with ground speeds at 290 to 375 knots. Granted what I have read about the internal GPS was before the iPad 2 came out.

I'm happy with my decision and it works for me and you have made yours and are happy with yours.
6 of one half a dozen of the other.


Keith.

[Anymouse]

Did a lot of research first. From what I read at higher altitudes and speeds the internal one can lose signal. I fly a Kingair 350 at work an we fly high at 20000 and above with ground speeds at 290 to 375 knots. Granted what I have read about the internal GPS was before the iPad 2 came out.

I'm happy with my decision and it works for me and you have made yours and are happy with yours.
6 of one half a dozen of the other.


Keith.

Hmmm... Interesting...

In my Tango, I typically fly in the mid teens for longer cross country trips at roughly 180 knots. No problems noted. I have noticed when flying in the back of big iron, that I will get a good signal while on the ramp, but lose it at altitude. The one time I DID get a good signal at altitude was when I was in a window seat.

[EDGEFLY]

Thanks to all for your response. I will certainly consider your inputs as I move to this purchase. Since there was a good response to my initial question, I decided to expand it a little in hopes of more info from real pilots. Two other factors which I have not resolved on my own are the need for 16/32/64 capacity and your views of two apps; Wing X and Foreflight. There were some discussions of actual memory usage for aviation apps (vs other stuff such as ibooks etc.) in earlier forum traffic. As I recall three users said they were using 7, 9 or 12 G's for whatever they had on their machines. This was presumably for the principal apps plus the additional burden for navigation, storage of reference data etc. Online video presentations of the use and merit of iPads and their nominal apps of interest to G/A recommend the 32 configuration. This is a recommendation by the presenter and not necessarily a requirement. I would be interested in the actual use by this forum's users. Please indicate if you are basing your input on heavy IFR usage, VFR, lots of X-country or more causal local flying. Thanks for taking the time to respond.


EDGEFLY

[Anymouse]

I use neither. Instead, I use SkyCharts Pro. It has all the charts, with geo-referenced enroute charts, but not all the frills that you get with WingX or Foreflight. It also only costs $20/year. If this recent fiasco with the FAA and their charting policies causes SkyCharts Pro to go out of business, I'll probably get Foreflight.

As far as memory usage goes, I got the 64G and have plenty right now. Still only have a smattering of my pictures loaded, but all my music is there. With that, my apps, and roughly the eastern half of the country's charts in cache, I'm currently at about half on my storage capacity. Keep in mind that you'll probably find you'll use the iPad for more than just aviation stuff (despite what you say now).

[MickYoumans]

Edgefly, I have the 32 gig iPad 2 with 26 gigs of available memory left. It is loaded with WingX and about 25 other apps. I also have over 100 pictures on it. I do NOT have any movies or vdeo on it. I'm guessing that 70% or more of my flights have been cross country using the internal GPS. I also take my iPad on commercial flights with me and follow the trip on WingX. I recently flew from Augusta to Atlanta to Colorado Springs at 40,000 feet and 450 knots and had no problem with the GPS signal. On the trip I had both WingX and ForeFlight and made a lot of screen captures to compare the two programs. Unfortunately I don't have a place to upload them for you to view. I would recommend getting at least the 32 gig memory to allow for future expansion. I don't think there is any way to expand memory later like you can do on a PC.

[EDGEFLY]

I made my decisions and here they are. First, I went with the iPad 2 w/ 3G and 16 GB of memory. I did not buy an external GPS device and have purchased Wing X Pro for navigation purposes. I also have all of my home laptop info aboard and don't have any storage problem. I am VFR in a Cherokee PA- 28 and have no issue with the built-in GPS. The only usage issue is the screen glare in high light conditions and anticipate that an anti-reflective guard will help with that. The only other comment I have is that I am not someone who stores a lot of music or videos so a new user might want to carefully look at this aspect when sizing their unit.My thanks to everyone who contributed their experience and knowledge to this thread.EDGEFLY

[Wilfred]

I received my Ipad "3" and married it with as 30-day 99-cent trial offer of WingX and turned on the Sky Radar ADS-B receiver. The readability was marginal until I turned the iPAD'S light setting to max, and ALSO set the WingX light intensity to max...except when directly and squarely angled into direct sunlight the readabilith is fine. There are only two ADS-B transmitting units around here....down at the New Mexico northern border, and I flew down there the other day but didn't pick up weather data...suspect it was something I was doing wrong...will try again...the GPS in the Sky Radar worked perfectly.

You might note on the WingX site that they acknowledge there is as problem with the sectional and terrain display in the Ipad 3 due to a 'bug' in the Apple software, as they put it. The two things tend to repeat in vertical strips, but other than that all is fine.

[BruceAir]

My initial PIREP on the iPad3 and the ASA iPad kneeboard (which includes an easel-like prop-up feature) is at my blog (http://bruceair.wordpress.com/2012/03/25/flying-with-an-ipad3-first-impressions/).

I haven't tried it yet in the Extra 300L, but I think it will be readable.

[MickYoumans]

For what it's worth, I've found that wearing a dark colored shirt improves readability of my iPad in the cockpit. Last Friday I flew home wearing a yellow shirt. I kept thinking I was having a harder time than usual seeing my iPad. It finally dawned on me that my yellow shirt was reflecting a lot on the screen. Today when I flew to work, as an experiment, I wore a black shirt. It made a very noticable difference to me. YMMV, but I certainly think it may be worth a try if you are fighting screen reflections.

[rosiejerryrosie]

A good observation....I have the same problem with my GPS in my car.

[EDGEFLY]

As I reported earlier, My iPad 2 w/internal GPS, 3G, 16GB and Wire X is satisfying my VFR needs without problem. To ensure that everything was covered, I purchased a cheapo glare shield and installed it. That was a real disaster !!! Fortunately, the vendor refunded my cost of purchase. Although I had been flying with the iPad and experiencing little,if any, difficulty I decided to check out the availability of better solutions. The one I chose, based on Internet research was "invisible SHIELD" by ZAGG. There are different products for each iPad model and you must purchase an anti-Glare product if you desire that benefit. After my first experience, I was somewhat concerned about the installation. Happily, I can report that if you can repair a flat tire or something equally simple and passed 1st grade reading, you should have no problem with this. Better yet, I am astounded by the Anti-Glare performance. The ZAGG product is not cheap ~$30 but, IMHO, well worth it.