Airventure thoughts

[mcmurphy]

It's time for my annual thoughts on Airventure week. Once again the blue tram route was overwhelmed along with other tram routes. I think the guy in charge of trams and three of his buddies ought to try to get a seat on a northbound blue tram at the Ultralight barn. In 90 degree heat. With no breeze. I see the attendance was posted as 704,000 people. How many new trams have been added to the fleet lately? Are we going to see any improvement in the future?
I am really upset that the powers that be took away camping spots in Camp Scholler and used them for car parking. Then they opened "Scholler South West" out in the middle of nowhere with no bus service to the show, except for one spot as much as a quarter mile away from some of the sites. Unlike Camp Scholler there were no buses cruising through the camper area. Also no ice or food available nearby. Why couldn't they use that area for car parking?
Over all it was a good week. Things seemed to run smoothly, although I thought there were too many non-aviation booths in the exhibit hangars. Maybe give smaller aviation businesses a break on booth prices? I think there needs to be some serious thought about how the EAA is going to handle the continuing growth in the future.

[mazdaP5]

I suspect that bringing traffic in from 41 would be much easier than from Knapp or Ripple, but yeah, I hate when they adjust and move Scholler. They really need permanent structures for showers down on that side of camp if they keep moving. It does look a little appealing since there is a south 40 gate now, but it's all still so far away from show center.
My forever gripe is that EAA closes off the Eagle Hangar for the one week that I'm ever in Oshkosh to view it. I pay for that museum, I'd like to be able to see it.

Overall though, Oshkosh was great. Even the heat index days had a nice breeze and was quite tolerable.

[CHICAGORANDY]

As to the South end of the Blue Route massive woes? You might want to send your complaints directly to the EAA brain trust that created, new for 2025, the 4,000 car Purple Parking lot with NO, ZERO, NADA provision to transport the 6000-8000 people issuing forth from said cars North or Southbound. Same goes for the new camping area. EAA management is also the source for any new additions to the tram fleet, not the tram chairfolks.

Do also understand that almost every day, EVERY tram we had was in service on both shifts, often meaning there were few, if any, volunteer teams left to provide breaks for the afternoon shifts. I assure you that volunteers for 2026 will ALWAYS be welcome.

[steve]

That's not entirely 100% true about the purple lot. I drive the Home Built Camping (HBC) Welcome Wagons and all the drivers were briefed by our director and then we drove to the purple lot to learn the ins 'n outs of the route, all before opening day. We only have 4 vehicles and we all know that's a drop in the bucket as far as providing good service to and from the purple outback. We do our best.

[skyranger]

Money needs to be used to improve the trams for sure ! And porta lets for the drivers too !

[Kyle Boatright]

Here are my bullet points:

1) Need more North South Trams. Need faster trams. Maybe widen the N/S road so there is enough width for a pedestrian sidewalk AND speedier trams. I know sidewalk lines were marked 30 years ago, but those are gone and with the increased attendance there are a lot of pedestrian mingling with tram and bus traffic. Add in all the people walking to/from the far south 40, and there needs to be a reasonably quick way to get them to show center. We walked down there and back from HBC. It was a hike.

2) EAA Merch. It's gotten too expensive. Yeah, I realize Ma and Pa Kettle from Appleton may bring their grandchildren and buy 'em a $40 t-shirt, but I'm certainly not gonna buy one. Even my son (14) said "Wow, this stuff is expensive."

3) Thursday morning departure window. A huge win. We got out this year with minimal delay. A big improvement over the last couple of years.

4) Airshows. Can we get an airshow for the members on a slow day (say Tuesday)? No announcers (that neat Merlin or R2800 sound isn't so neat when it is drowned out by a PA guy), fewer loud acts, and more fly-bys of historic and experimental aircraft? I've seen enough extreme aerobatics, Jet Waco's, and warbird criss-cross patterns to last a lifetime. How 'bout something a little different?

That said. All in all, a great event. See y'all next year.

[Ronald Franck]

1) Need more North South Trams. Need faster trams.

Although I've been volunteering at AirVenture for 41 years this year was my first year volunteering with the TRAMS. I wanted a first hand view of the inner working of their operation to gain a better understanding of the challenges that they face. I can attest to the dedication to those volunteers who operate the trams. Their first responsibility is to operate the trams as safely as possible. Speed has no place in their equation if it places passengers or pedestrians at unnecessary risk. Having spent time on several routes and having experienced the discomfort of negotiating the myriad of bumps and dips on trams routes for a six hour shift, on trams that have no suspension, I can see no way to comfortably negotiate the routes at a faster pace than what is already in practice. Does the tram operation need more trams? Probably, but not until they have more people volunteering to operate the trams. On one particular day my driver and I recieved no relief. We operated for six straight hours without a break except for a forced bathroom break along our route. That's not a complaint because we understand how thin manpower can be some days and we accept that with good cheer. Bottom line....the trams need more volunteers!
Those who are "old hands" at negotiating the grounds around AirVenture have come to realize that the best place to catch a seat on a tram is at the beginning and end of each route. If you try to catch a ride at in-between stops you could wait quite a long time. Too often I've seen riders get right back on a tram at it's turn-around and go back where they came from. We can't stop it but we try to get those waiting to board on first. If you want "speed" there are now "Express Trams" on two routes, the Red and the Blue routes have initiated trams that make no intermediate stops. That addition has helped move people quickly from far north and far south to show central and relieve some of the congestion on those routes. They are trying.
As ChicagoRandy and others have commented, there needs to be improvements to the paved routes. Some spots are so bad that I sometimes think I'm in Illinois rather than Wisconsin.

[Kyle Boatright]

Although I've been volunteering at AirVenture for 41 years this year was my first year volunteering with the TRAMS. I wanted a first hand view of the inner working of their operation to gain a better understanding of the challenges that they face. I can attest to the dedication to those volunteers who operate the trams. Their first responsibility is to operate the trams as safely as possible. Speed has no place in their equation if it places passengers or pedestrians at unnecessary risk. Having spent time on several routes and having experienced the discomfort of negotiating the myriad of bumps and dips on trams routes for a six hour shift, on trams that have no suspension, I can see no way to comfortably negotiate the routes at a faster pace than what is already in practice. Does the tram operation need more trams? Probably, but not until they have more people volunteering to operate the trams. On one particular day my driver and I recieved no relief. We operated for six straight hours without a break except for a forced bathroom break along our route. That's not a complaint because we understand how thin manpower can be some days and we accept that with good cheer. Bottom line....the trams need more volunteers!
Those who are "old hands" at negotiating the grounds around AirVenture have come to realize that the best place to catch a seat on a tram is at the beginning and end of each route. If you try to catch a ride at in-between stops you could wait quite a long time. Too often I've seen riders get right back on a tram at it's turn-around and go back where they came from. We can't stop it but we try to get those waiting to board on first. If you want "speed" there are now "Express Trams" on two routes, the Red and the Blue routes have initiated trams that make no intermediate stops. That addition has helped move people quickly from far north and far south to show central and relieve some of the congestion on those routes. They are trying.
As ChicagoRandy and others have commented, there needs to be improvements to the paved routes. Some spots are so bad that I sometimes think I'm in Illinois rather than Wisconsin.

It is a system of systems. The N/S transportation route is obsolete and needs to be reworked to move more people (both on foot and in trams) faster and more safely (the road is too narrow for the traffic burden - both on foot and in trams). And per the tram drivers, it is too rough in the first place. Those things need to be updated/corrected. Plus faster/more trams.

[CHICAGORANDY]

It should be remembered that the Tram Service's original purpose was ONLY to assist the elderly and those with special mobility needs. At some point the mission was changed to also allow the general public to board the trams. It now has become a simple arithmetic impossibility. One cannot move 70,000 people each day on conveyances that max out at 40 passengers without leaving most folks walking instead. I guess Whittman Regional 'could' install a mile or two of moving sidewalks for this single 7-day event, but that 'might' get reflected in an increase to attendance costs? LOL It takes 4 volunteers each day to put one tram on the street with additional volunteers needed to provide relief drivers and conductors on both shifts for all 6 routes. EAA builds the carts, the local John Deere dealer supplies the fleet of tractors. Both are factors involved in increasing the size of the fleet, were sufficient new tram volunteers available.

[krw920]

It should be remembered that the Tram Service's original purpose was ONLY to assist the elderly and those with special mobility needs. At some point the mission was changed to also allow the general public to board the trams. It now has become a simple arithmetic impossibility. One cannot move 70,000 people each day on conveyances that max out at 40 passengers without leaving most folks walking instead. I guess Whittman Regional 'could' install a mile or two of moving sidewalks for this single 7-day event, but that 'might' get reflected in an increase to attendance costs? LOL It takes 4 volunteers each day to put one tram on the street with additional volunteers needed to provide relief drivers and conductors on both shifts for all 6 routes. EAA builds the carts, the local John Deere dealer supplies the fleet of tractors. Both are factors involved in increasing the size of the fleet, were sufficient new tram volunteers available.
I think the biggest problem is that at one time most public parking was within reasonable walking distance from show center and main gates. That has now changed to where most of the public parking is now almost a mile walk from the nearest lots to the main gate and over 2 miles from the new Purple lot. As Randy has stated, the purple lot shuttle now drops off on the far south side of the of the airfield, which is almost 1.5 miles from the Brown Arch. That is a lot of walking that didn't need to be done before when the D lot and the G lots were the main public parking areas.

[PaulDow]

I would think the goal is to move a lot of people quickly from a fixed point to another and back without interfering with the aircraft on the grounds.
Would a ski lift type system be cost effective? Installation would be less than putting it on a mountain since it’s flat. I know we’re only looking at about 9 days counting early arrivals. It might be cheaper than a major paving project.

[CHICAGORANDY]

I would think the goal is to move a lot of people quickly from a fixed point to another and back without interfering with the aircraft on the grounds.
Would a ski lift type system be cost effective? Installation would be less than putting it on a mountain since it’s flat. I know we’re only looking at about 9 days counting early arrivals. It might be cheaper than a major paving project.

Since they haven't been able to improve the pavement over the decades, I shudder to think about the maintenance and insurance nightmares involved in a ski lift. One of the BEST large scale customer service operations in my memory is Disney. AFAIK guests mostly walk at their theme parks. With a few stops necessary along the way on each route, I honestly can't think of a more practical, logistical and affordable way to move more folks than the trams do now at this brief event.

[PaulDow]

Perhaps city buses on the show grounds instead of school buses. They have the second wider door which would probably cut load/unload times by 2/3.

[Kyle Boatright]

Since they haven't been able to improve the pavement over the decades, I shudder to think about the maintenance and insurance nightmares involved in a ski lift. One of the BEST large scale customer service operations in my memory is Disney. AFAIK guests mostly walk at their theme parks. With a few stops necessary along the way on each route, I honestly can't think of a more practical, logistical and affordable way to move more folks than the trams do now at this brief event.

I think the tram approach is appropriate. But they need to add capacity on the N/S line and separate the foot traffic from the vehicles.

[turtle]

on trams that have no suspension
This is not the 1960s and an event with only a few hundred people. There’s no reason the existing trams couldn’t be retrofitted with a decent suspension and maybe a truck air ride seat for the conductor. Might get more volunteers if they didn’t have to suffer for hours getting rattled on a cart.

[krw920]

I think the tram approach is appropriate. But they need to add capacity on the N/S line and separate the foot traffic from the vehicles.

I agree, and one other thing I noticed is that the Express tram needed more trams on that route, at least the south side route for sure. Not sure how many they had running on that route, but I know I rarely saw one.

[CHICAGORANDY]

I agree, and one other thing I noticed is that the Express tram needed more trams on that route, at least the south side route for sure. Not sure how many they had running on that route, but I know I rarely saw one.

EVERY route has clamored for "more". The Tram operation can AWAYS use more volunteers. It takes a minimum of 4 volunteers to put ONE tram on the street. Were EAA to build additional tram coaches and the JD dealer donate a tractor to pull it, it only takes YOU to get that new rig rollin', consider joining us in 2026.

"To volunteer for the trams at AirVenture, you can contact the Volunteer Center at vccs.eaa@gmail.com. For more direct tram-related inquiries, some organizers have also used the email address airventuretrams@gmail.com to send sign-up sheets and information. You can also find more information on the official EAA website or contact them by phone:Phone: (920) 230-7744"

[FlyingRon]

3) Thursday morning departure window. A huge win. We got out this year with minimal delay. A big improvement over the last couple of years.

Last year was a debacle because 9-27 got closed. The only real change this year was not accepting arrivals Thrusday morning.

[krw920]

I already have a full-time volunteer position! Wish I could do both but want some time to enjoy the convention!

[Kyle Boatright]

3) Thursday morning departure window. A huge win. We got out this year with minimal delay. A big improvement over the last couple of years.

Last year was a debacle because 9-27 got closed. The only real change this year was not accepting arrivals Thrusday morning.

The point is they took action that appeared to fix the issue and I applaud that. Early Thursday departures have been a challenge for years.

[psvinny]

How about a monorail system? I could envision a vast network. Stations at Purple lot, Bus Park/Main entrance, North 40, South 40, Fond du Lac(lol), Museum. This would be an attraction all by itself (year round?) Imagine the possibilities.

[PaulDow]

How about a monorail system?
We’ll have to check with Brockway, Ogdenville and North Haverbrook to see how their’s are working out.
There’s a problem with moving a lot of people where vendors (who pay a lot of money to be there) would see their potential customers moved right past them. That’s why airports are removing moving sidewalks. The trams and buses don’t move enough people to affect them.
I’m not sure what the right solution is with the parking lots so far away. Even the main entrance is half a mile from show center. The Purple lot admission gate is 2/3 mile away, and that is after bus rides.
Maybe helicopter shuttles like they used to do at the New York Worlds Fair.
9661

[mazdaP5]

Star Track transporters. Beam me up.

[Auburntsts]

We’ll have to check with Brockway, Ogdenville and North Haverbrook to see how their’s are working out.
9661

Oh Man, I almost spit out my drink when I read that -- classic episode!!

[gmatejcek]

The fundamental problem, as I see it, is EAA's shift from being member focused to being cash focused. If everyone would comment directly to management that this is OUR convention, not an amusement park for the NASCAR crowd, and to focus on taking care of our own we might get their attention. There certainly have been some improvements to the campgrounds, but the trend is not good. I feel there is an unsustainable, vicious circle here that will continue to erode the volunteer base and increase prices until things completely unravel.

[CHICAGORANDY]

We’ll have to check with Brockway, Ogdenville and North Haverbrook to see how their’s are working out.
There’s a problem with moving a lot of people where vendors (who pay a lot of money to be there) would see their potential customers moved right past them. That’s why airports are removing moving sidewalks. The trams and buses don’t move enough people to affect them.
I’m not sure what the right solution is with the parking lots so far away. Even the main entrance is half a mile from show center. The Purple lot admission gate is 2/3 mile away, and that is after bus rides.
Maybe helicopter shuttles like they used to do at the New York Worlds Fair.
9661

I call the big one "Bitey".

[norwaybuilder]

The tram capacity is definitely an issue, but I think it’ll be hard to do much about it.


My only comment from this year is this: From what I could tell, and after talking to others, there was no communication that the STOL contest (and other events) at the Fun Flying Zone was cancelled one evening after a downpour. The reason for the cancellation was of course understandable, but I think it could have been communicated better. We drove an hour from Green Bay that evening and met others who were also confused that nothing was happening and that there was no information.


Other than that, I really enjoyed my first AirVenture and can’t wait to come back. Hope to see you all next year!