Project documentation / log

[Algoa]

Does the EAA offer a builder's log website benefit?

Seems like that might be something of real use to a bunch of builders...

Dave

[CarlOrton]

I'm not aware of any offering from EAA. The two main logs are Kitlog Pro and ExperCraft.

I bought Kitlog because I liked the fact that the data reside on my computer; I can upload to the web, but the data stays with me. ExperCraft (and I haven't looked at it since 2007), has all data stored on the web.

My computer suffered a major crash last fall; I had usually backed up my files, but lent my backup drive to my wife for a few months. Kitlog did a dump from the web to an Excel s/sheet for me, so I as able to recreate my missing activities. (I upload to the web after each edit session.)

[Eric Witherspoon]

Kitlog can also export your log to .pdf files for easy storage or printing.

With all the drama over these forums, I'd think EAA will be staying out of the "build a personal site app" business. And it wouldn't serve all that much of the membership, given that even if a majority of the members are builders (and I'm not sure that's so), their project either hasn't started or it's "finished" with the actively-building-a-build-log phase, and then when you take that little slice of the pie that really do have a pile of stuff in the garage or hangar that they go out and putter around with every once in a while, they're logging in their heads, on paper, in a spreadsheet, or using one of the two apps that Carl mentioned... If you've already started one way, it's not easy to change. I think since Carl (and I) can only come up with those two names of apps at all, it says the market as a whole for airplane-building activity-logging website-building apps is pretty small.

My last project is on Kitlog, but when I switched to a new computer, I couldn't get Kitlog to make any new postings to the log (even with help from Kitlog). So the project I'm working on now, I'm back to writing my own html and using an Excel spreadsheet to collect some data to make totaling up various times easier. Pretty simple.

[Anymouse]

Unfortunately, Kitlog was sold a bunch of years ago. I don't think there's been any development on it since then. I still have it on an old computer, but I'm thinking it might end up being pen and paper with a transfer to Word later on for my current project.

[Rick Galati]

......might be something of real use to a bunch of builders...Dave,

The only "real use" the builder has in investing so much time and effort developing comprehensive builders log comes down to little more than personal satisfaction, something to show the grandchildren on a cold winters night. The FAA could care less about the dates and time it took you to complete various assemblies. If the ultimate goal is eventually receiving the Repairman's Certificate, all that is really required of the builder is proof he completed 51% of the work and a one or two minute interview with an experienced FAA guy goes a long way towards determining that. I cannot speak for the standards found in other FSDO offices around the country but as far as my experience on 2 separate occasions with the STL FSDO goes, they were satisfied with informal conversation, photo albums, a looseleaf binder filled with purchasing invoices, and most important of all.....their paperwork filled out containing absolutely no errors or even corrections.

If you still think a comprehensive builders log is something you want to develop and potentially share with other builders, by all means go for it but in the end know that that carefully crafted builders log is something only you are likely to appreciate.

[Anymouse]

It also helps if you want to sell the project (complete or not). Seeing how it was built can go a long way to building buyer confidence.

[skeeter_ca]

I have KitLogPro. I like it alot except for a few quirks. You can't add more than 3 pictures per entry. If you want more you have to add another entry. Also the tax lines when entering receipts doesn't work logically. Alot of times i had to pull out a calculator to add it up correctly. Other than that i'm really satisfied with it.

skeeter

[Red Baron]

Hi All, I am the "new guy" on the block (just joined EAA and registered on this forum) and have questions about logs pictures etc. Rick Galati covered some of what I wanted to know the FAA required logs etc but I need more information and details. Here is my problem/question/dilemma: I have found an RV-10 for sale that is complete with all the parts. The panel is complete and all of the electronics are hooked up and work. The problem is that it was purchased sometime ago and started by a person that lost his medical. He had done all of the work to that point in time which I would guess is about 90% complete. He sold it to another person who intended to finish it but has since decided he didn't have the time and is going to purchase a C-182 instead. This person has done ZERO work on the project. My problem is what happens if I purchase it, can I get the FAA to issue me a repairman's certificate since I REALLY won't be doing 51% of the work? How do they handle a situation like this? How much of a log would I have to show them? I can get pictures of the building of the aircraft but how would I explain or justify the part that I didn't build? Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? I have purchased 1/2 of an RV-8A but my partner in that operation is the builder so I don't have a problem with that one.
Thanks,

[Rick Galati]

...... can I get the FAA to issue me a repairman's certificate since I REALLY won't be doing 51% of the work?......

According to my understanding, I don't think you should have much of a problem getting the FAA to issue you a Repairman's Certificate. It is not a narrowly defined question of you personally doing 51% of the work. Example: There are situations in which a group of people get together and build an airplane project collectively. Later, when construction of the airplane is completed, only one person can be issued a Repairman's Certificate. I believe that the one person whom the group of builders agrees to receive that Repairman's Certificate need only demonstrate that 51% of the work was accomplished by amateur effort or some legal term to that effect.

[Frank Giger]

While it would be cool to get some free webspace and a template from EAA for builds, it would ultimately be doomed to failure.

First, the ideal is that I could get my DAR to look at the website before he came out to inspect. I doubt they'd spend the time and effort to do so, though.

Second, there are a lot of "like type" groups for aircraft builders, many of which have the ability to upload pictures - and that may actually be a better audience. I participate in a couple groups that build WWI replicas, and it's hard to get them to follow a link. Best to work directly with them, even if it means a little cut-and-paste.

Third, EAA's lawyers might bust a vein over the notion that somebody might post unsafe practices in a build on their official servers, get signed off, and then crash.

Fourth, no matter how flexible the technology platform it will not match what the individual user wants to do with it. Heck, I'm not happy with my own website - be sure I would hate whatever somebody else came up with.

[edit]

I plan on scaring the heck out of my DAR by having a laptop, projector, and PowerPoint presentation titled "N112GV Build - Slide 1 of 659" fired up.

[Chad Jensen]

We get this question all the time, and Rick's assertion is correct. The 51% rule applies to the AIRPLANE being built, not the person or persons building it. One repairman certificate per EAB registered airplane. You will be fine in getting the RC for a purchased project as long as the RC for that serial number specific project has not previously been applied for.

[Jim Hann]

You will be fine in getting the RC for a purchased project as long as the RC for that serial number specific project has not previously been applied for.
Chad, when can an RC be applied for? I am/was under the assumption that the airplane has to have an airworthiness certificate. Correct?

Jim
PS, project got some sun today in the driveway, lots of cars slowing... :cool: One neighbor I've spoken with before stopped by, turns out he had a Luscombe 8A in his garage for years, but finally sold it when it collected too much dust. Never knew!

[Chad Jensen]

That is correct Jim, the RC comes AFTER the airworthiness certification has been attained.

I had the very same thing happen (except the Luscombe part-COOL!!!) when I pushed my RV-7 fueslage out one day. I suddenly became the talk of the neighborhood! :cool:

[nfdlpilot]

I bought a paper builders logbook just so I could keep track of things. No need to complicate matters with a web site IMHO. I do have a personal blog that I can post to sporadically if I choose.