AirVenture 2022 - The Good, Bad, and Ugly [Archive]

Jeremy S

07-31-2022, 10:43 AM

This is from my personal experience and does not reflect the opinions or experiences of others. This year most of my group stayed in Scholler. We arrived mid-day on Saturday. Overall we had a great time as usual despite a few setbacks.

The Good:

Registration at Scholler was fast and smooth. The volunteers did an excellent job at keeping traffic moving.
Shuttles were running frequently and despite often being full, we never had to wait long.
Every volunteer that I encountered was helpful and friendly. The army of volunteers definitely deserve kudos for a job well done.
The grounds always appeared to be very clean and well maintained. The staff and volunteers play a major part in this, but it also shows a great deal of respect from the attendees.
Port-a-Johns are often atrocious. The ones in the campground were frequently cleaned and did not smell too bad.
The camp store was well stocked and had decent prices.
The selection of Warbirds to see this year was great.
I usually don't take trams, but this year we took advantage of the yellow and red to get across the grounds to warbirds. Trams were running frequently and we were always able to get a ride.
The Ham radio station was back at Pioneer airport.
I had my doubts about the wrist bands this year but mine lasted the entire week. Definitely a improvement over last year.

The Bad:

Wait times at the shower houses could be bad if you go at peak hours during the morning and afternoon. With Scholler being so full this year, I think they needed at least some more portable shower houses trailers.
The shower houses tend to get stuffy and smelly during the day. I still don't understand why they don't mount a few large exhaust fans to keep air circulating through them.
Those low flow toilets stop up easily and often multiple stalls were out of commission. Remember folk, always courtesy flush and use multiple flushes to get rid of any paper in smaller amounts! I also came aross several stalls that were out of TP, might be beneficial to mount a larger or second dispenser. I always bring my own to be safe.
We arrived Saturday and made the bad decision of setting up camp before the storm... my tent and many around me were destroyed by the heavy wind. In hindsight, we should have roped off our site and waited until after the storm to set up camp like some of our neighbors. Our thinking was setting up camp in pouring rain sucks, so we rushed to get the tents up before the storm. A late night trip to Walmart yielded a replacement trip, so minor setback. Pro tip: The WalMart near the airport got cleaned out fast of any tents on Saturday. I instead drove 20 minute north to a different WalMart which was well stocked.
My brand new Canon 90D DSLR literally died on Tuesday morning. I had received this a week before the show due to being backordered so didn't have much time to field test it. Luckily the camera shop where I purchased it back at home exchanged it with me new camera yesterday. So I missed out on getting good pics for most of the week.
Saturday evening when I was trying to dry out my bedding at the Scholler laundromat, at least a 3rd of the dryers were either not working well or broken. The change machine was also out. Luckily I had enough quarters for myself and a handful of extra to hand out to others. Does the campground have a maintenance crew on call who can jump on these issues as they come up?
While the food available on site was decent and at the expected event prices, I wish there was a more diverse selection available. I understand due to real estate and logistics they probably have to stick to only a few of the larger commercial vendors like Subway and A&W, instead of allowing more of the smaller mom and pop type food trucks that you often see at other events and fairs. Would be nice to have some good taco trucks and better quality options to choose from.
Since Canon pulled out, there didn't appear to be any camera vendors on site (unless I missed them?).

The Ugly:

Some guy was racing his loud (no exhaust) dirt bike back and forth by our sites (non-generator area) well past 10PM several nights that we were there. He appeared to be joy riding. I wear ear plugs at night but this was still loud enough to wake me.
Scholler really filled up by Monday and people were getting desperate and often pushy to get a spot that wasn't all the way in the back section.

-We had 8 people and 3 vehicles, so we paid for 3 sites. I arrived two days before the others on Saturday so I displayed the proper credentials and roped off sites just big enough for our tents and vehicles. The fist of us to arrive spread out our tents and screened tent across all 3 sites to help stake out our claim. We had several people completely disregard this and drive across our orange marking tape to setup their camp before we chased them out. On Monday, before our last two tent campers with their vehicle had arrived, some guy felt the need to yell at my friend and make threats because we were "hogging the campground" and demanded that we forfeit part of our site to him. They told him to pound sand. When our entire group had arrived we utilized 100% of the space that we had paid for with no extra room.
-The family next to us had a site just big enough for their tent and car. They also roped off a small area for their mini-van parking. While they were gone one evening a guy in a camper took their parking spot despite being clearly marked off.

Gary.Sobek

07-31-2022, 11:50 AM

This was the 21st time I flew my airplane into AirVenture Oshkosh.

Went a day early (Saturday) because I was forecasting IFR Sunday morning and expected that to saturate traffic Sunday afternoon. My forecasting was off a little as I had forecast 11 AM when VFR traffic would start arriving and it was more like 10:30 when arrival started in mass.

Saturday I had weather as I approached Chicago area. I had diverted south and west of my planned route. Turbulence was such that my A-20 headset left my right ear and was only on part of my left ear. G-meter recorded +2.5 and -1.5. I ended up 115 NM off course because of weather. I was 35 NM west of my intended fuel stop but knew I could get fuel at C73. I was avoiding C73 as I knew there was a large group there practicing formation and would be doing a mass arrival.

Departure for the last one hour flight into OSH was about as expected. It felt that I would be arriving after the Cessna mass arrivals were over. I was wrong. The Cessnas were using runway 36L and ATC was using one mile spacing for arrivals as they only had one runway that the Cessnas were not using. No issue there as I could not see any aircraft in front of me but ADS-B in showed one 2 or 3 miles ahead. As I approached FISK, I head ATC direct an aircraft right turn to runway 18. A little while later, I also was directed to turn right to runway 18. As I got closer, runway 18L was where they wanted me. Never saw the aircraft in front of me but it did a go around. I put the aircraft right where ATC wanted it so I think I was the first aircraft to land on 18L after the Cessna mass arrival. Parking and tiedown was as usual.

Having flown into OSH AirVenture before, I knew the routine. I do NOT like the security checking bags every time I come back on the airport. I flew in and could have brought anything including an item they do not want. The security check line was longer with waits to get in much longer than any year in the past. No were near enough people to check incoming bags. I was using the gate from the bus stop that is due east. I departed Thursday as I felt it had the least Wx issues for me heading home. I felt like I spent 5-minutes in line getting my suitcase, backpack, and water cooler inspected before I could get to my airplane.

Flying my airplane into AirVenture then needing to get my belongs / bags check to depart is getting to be an issue with me. This may be my last trip to AirVenture as I do not like this security search.

Trip home again has Wx to deal with. Lots of airplane departing Thursday. After 50-minutes of taxi and holding, I was till not on the runway. My airplane spend the first 16-years in the Southwest where high temperatures are normal. My airplane was built to be able to operate in high heat with high temperatures. After 50-minutes, I was at 220 F oil temperature. I know at this temperature that I can have missing due to vapor lock on my takeoff roll. I did have a little engine stumble on my takeoff roll but I was able to get to full RPM (constant speed prop) and smooth running engine as I accelerate on my takeoff roll. No issue to my first fuel stop. Was suppose to met friends that taxied out in front of me there but they were already refueled and taking off 1/2 hour before I would arrive. After fuel stop, I was not able to go direct on course due to Wx. I had to fly South for a while before turning toward Atlanta. Watching ADS-B Wx, I knew there were strong radar returns (Reds, Pink, and Orange) to avoid. Started out flying under but do not like flying at 2,000 MSL under clouds. The broken layer had big enough holes that I could go up and come back down so I decided to go up and take a look. Much nicer on top. Had holes large enough that I could get back down. I could see sunlight on clouds ahead and to the east. Turned more direct toward home with the idea I could turn back toward Atlanta if needed. As I approached home, I figure I would stop and fill up as I do not have fuel at my home base. Arrived home after 6.3 hobbs hours. This should have been about a 4.5-hour flight.

I am more out of shape now that I am older. Only walked 19,600 steps on Monday. Tuesday was down to 12,100 and I was tired as I did not get enough rest Monday night. Guess I need to admit that I am part of the Medicare crowd and should not be pussing myself.

I will review this post next year to determine if I will fly my airplane to AirVenture again. I may be IFR rated but would not fly IFR in the weather that I had on the way to and from OSH. I would rather drive 16-hours over two days than fly in turbulence. Searching bags of people that flew into OSH when they come back on the field is another issue that will keep me away.

Maybe I am the only person that does NOT want the bags that will be in their personal aircraft inspected by EAA security people. Having my bags searched is enough to keep me from flying my aircraft back to AirVenture in the future.

Jeremy S

07-31-2022, 12:45 PM

Maybe I am the only person that does NOT want the bags that will be in their personal aircraft inspected by EAA security people. Having my bags searched is enough to keep me from flying my aircraft back to AirVenture in the future.

I usually went into the gate early each day so the security lines weren't that bad. They hardly checked my bag, just glanced in and poked with a stick. I suspect they are mainly looking for firearms. Sadly, this is just a sign of the times and the EAA is possibly being forced to do bag checks by airport policy and/or their insurance. I personally don't mind the inconvenience if it helps keep the crowds safer.

My friends got caught in the weather on Saturday as well. We drove right through it near Chicago.

mazdaP5

07-31-2022, 03:18 PM

I was very pleasantly surprised to see high quality model kits in the shops. The last few years had been cheap Revell kits and even cheaper snap kits. I always said if EAA had high quality kits in the shops I'd buy, I ended up with five.

mazdaP5

07-31-2022, 06:28 PM

Also, the Thursday airshow was just one of the best. It was my Brother in law and nieces first Oshkosh, and they were blown away by the F-35 on Wednesday. On Thursday, it flew three times in the airshow, plus the jet warbirds, and it was well paced. My niece commented that she loved Oshkosh, I think we have them hooked.

Also on the good side, I was not almost run over by a single cart or gator all week, grounds traffic seemed much improved.

On the bad side, I wasn't too happy with converting the Sky Shoppe to an "exclusive" building, inclusion really is the name of the game.
My brother in law was not too thrilled with the Eagle Hangar being closed off, a sentiment I have been echoing for years. Membership gets you free admission, but only to part of the museum. His interest is in Warbirds, and 95% of members only ever get to the museum during the convention.

For the ugly, the south shower house flooded with grey water on Tuesday night, it was really quite gross.

FrankLudington

07-31-2022, 07:46 PM

Hey Jeremy,
I would agree with all your "good" items, especially trams, clean porta-potties, great volunteers, and great people overall.
I would add:
THE GOOD:
1. Webcams were Much better this year, very good resolution, lots of coverage.
2. Lot of good vendors
3. Great airshows
THE BAD:
1. Cellphone coverage (AT&T) not so good.
2. EAA WIFI coverage so-so, bandwidth so-so, but somehow the wifi did not allow email retrieval, pop3 email blocked for some reason.
3. We were camped (in "improved camping") next to a vendor area with a big party tent. He felt that everyone in a 100 yard radius wanted to hear his loud music.

Overall, another GREAT Oshkosh!

CHICAGORANDY

07-31-2022, 08:26 PM

Back home to my Chicago 'hood - sigh - after a near 4 hour drive following my 8-4:30ish tram conducting shift today. THANKS Milwaukee for shutting down a stretch of the VITAL North-South expressway, forcing ALL traffic to divert to surface streets. Oh joy, oh rapture. But I'm safely home none the less.

This year I worked the Blue tram route all 9 days on the morning 8:00-2:00 shift. The dedicated 'road preservationists' at Wittman were able to keep ALL the prior big potholes and heavy bumps and even added a few new ones, just to keep one's internal organs from getting complacent staying in one spot. The weather IMHO was PHENOMENAL and was the longest stretch of nice conditions that I can remember. Airplane people are good people, the crowds were substantial and as always 99.99% of the attendees with whom I had the pleasure of interacting were a treat. As I expected there were of course two or three unpleasant souls, but I think that for those few the worst thing that hurts their happiness is that everywhere they go, they bring themselves along.

I now begin counting down the days till next AirVenture, and oh yes indeed, I've already secured my motel room reservatiuons for next year.

colifis

08-01-2022, 05:55 AM

The Good:

- The (I think) new vintage tram tour. Our narrator was very knowledgeable and we learned a lot.
- Seabase was relaxing as always and the busses were running efficiently
- The volunteers in general are almost always very friendly and inviting
- Seeing a Mig 29 in action

The Bad:
- As someone above stated, half the museum is closed off every year. My son has been wanted to see that area for a few years now, and we don't get to Oshkosh any other time.
- A few people in the non-24 hour generator area way out south in the campground didn't get the message
- I miss the Ford tent.
- It would have been nice to have a B17 and the B24 on display
- The near miss from a seaplane pilot a little over exuberant on the the throttles that caused the dock attendant to go into the water. That could have been a bad accident.

mc20

08-01-2022, 06:23 AM

My "ugly" was the shower house in Camp Scholler nearest the entry. It smelled bad last year, (the stalls that share the wall with the urinals on the other side smell like stale urine), and this year, I tried several locations. Those stalls still smelled of stale urine. The mildew smell Sunday was overwhelmingly bad, and it was mixed in with a sewage smell.

The camp stores had good selection and surprisingly low prices. The food out on the airport was surprisingly more expensive. $11 for cheese curds was a surprise. $17 for a pasta + chicken + sausage dinner in the area near Boeing square was high. I don't recall exact prices for Subway from last year, but my first (and only) sandwich from them this year was very highly priced.

The crowd Saturday was a good size, but overall, it seemed quieter this year. I haven't seen numbers. It was very sparsely attended Sunday. I know that's usual, but the Sunday crowd this year seemed well down from average. I missed the big Ford Pavillion - not so much for the vehicles, but they usually had a climbing wall or similar set up near by. And free icecream some afternoons if you were lucky.

Auburntsts

08-01-2022, 07:24 AM

Maybe I am the only person that does NOT want the bags that will be in their personal aircraft inspected by EAA security people. Having my bags searched is enough to keep me from flying my aircraft back to AirVenture in the future.

Gary,
Next year call the Homebuilders Welcome Wagon. We’ll pick you and your bags up anywhere on the EAA grounds and take you to your airplane with no bag check.

As for me:

The Good:
— Definitely the weather (minus Saturday July 24th of course). Best we’ve ever experienced at Osh hands-down.
— Volunteering—first time my wife and I volunteered at Osh. We were Welcome Wagon drivers and had a blast
— Food trucks. I really like added variety and they were a pleasant surprise.

The Minor Annoying:
— The aircraft Marshallers. I get they are volunteers and typically they do a phenomenal job. But the 2 guys who parked us in HBP need to chill. I stopped and shut down short of the line in my parking spot so could put boards under my wheels. Immediately after shutdown I opened my door to explain what I was doing and that I’d pull it forward the last couple of feet. But before I could get a word out the guy doing the directing and his companion still on his scooter were almost yelling at me to move forward. I finally was able to tell them what I was going to do, but by the looks on their faces you’d have thought I was speaking in tongue’s or something, Ultimately they simply jumped on their scooters in a huff with a parting, just make sure you move your plane up. Far cry from welcome to Osh that I’ve received the previous 6 times we’ve flown in.
— my eBike died on the first day. Luckily it’s not bad as a regular bike, but I was really bummed at the time.
— Sleepy Hollow couldn’t get the campground washer fixed. Wouldn’t had been a big deal but we packed assuming we would was clothes. Ended up riding over the the Red Market West laundromat which is close to Sleepy Hollow.

These are all nits as we didn’t have any real complaints this year and definitely no bads or uglies.

Mayhemxpc

08-01-2022, 08:23 AM

Good: with the notable exception of Saturday night (which I missed, waiting it out on the ground at DPA) the weather was great. A tad windy sometimes, but overall, great.

I greatly appreciated the lifetime member pavilion. It replaced the former lifetime member dinner and a tent on the flight line that you had to have reservations for and could only use one day. I think this is a real winner (if you are a lifetime member. If you are not, it's existence doesn’t hurt you.)

plenty of trams. Although I didn’t use them much, preferring the exercise (22 thousand steps some days). They were plentiful and it seemed like people should have to wait long for a ride.

EAA staff. All those in encountered were friendly and as helpful as they could be (but see bad entry below).

shout out to staff from PS Engineering and Aircraft Spruce, who would go out of their way for great customer service.

Bad. I might as well mention supply issues. Phillips running out of 20W50 was a surprise. On the plus side, it was extra weight I didn’t need to load in the plane.

new hire EAA staff. Reports from others in my group are that the new hires did not get an orientation of the grounds before AirVenture started. For example, one didn’t even know where the blue barn was. That said, she was still helpful and happy to take directions to assist an older chapter member in getting there.

Cell phone coverage was strange. I use Verizon. There were places on the grounds where coverage seemed unavailable, although my phone showed at least three bars. Texts wouldn’t go out and phone calls went straight to voicemail. Other places were fine. Based on previous years, I never even tried to access the WiFi.

Ugly. I got nothing

Mayhemxpc

08-01-2022, 08:28 AM

Auburntsts

08-01-2022, 08:33 AM

Todd, does Vintage have its own marshallers? Since Vintage has such a great reputation, it would surprise me that anyone working vintage would do that. I park in Warbirds and the flight line staff there is always first rate, friendly, and helpful. In fact, as I have told them, it is the only place I go where I am confident that they will always use the right signals and where I follow the signals without hesitation.

Chris, no idea as I’ve never parked in vintage but I assume they do. I’ve always been in either home built camping or parking. These guys did their job perfectly from a technical standpoint, just not as friendly as I was expecting. I’m sure it was an anomaly. Had I been able to speak first, I’m sure it wouldn’t have happened at all.

Gary.Sobek

08-01-2022, 11:31 AM

Been communicating with several friends as they travelled home and after they arrived home.

The Ugly:
Got one friend / pilot that put 38-hours on his airplane round trip to Oshkosh. He is home sick and the at home COVID test is reporting POSITIVE. He has had the two COVID vaccine shots and one of the boosters. Two of our friends that he had contact with (a few days after I had seen them) are also reporting POSITIVE. I have had contact with all three and feel fine. I know the at home COVID test have a high false positive result so I do not trust them.

Would be interested in learning if any others are sick after their trip.

krw920

08-01-2022, 11:52 AM

The Bad:
- As someone above stated, half the museum is closed off every year. My son has been wanted to see that area for a few years now, and we don't get to Oshkosh any other time.

It's closed, but most of the planes that were in the Eagle Hangar are out side if you want to see them. They have that hangar setup for the large fundraising banquets.

thellmer

08-01-2022, 12:20 PM

Disclosure: I volunteered all week (8-5 daily) at the Member Center (Four Corners), and I write this from my travels around the show as an attendee/the perspective of an attendee.

The Good:
- The weather! Probably one of the best (recent) years I can remember where it was not blazingly hot and ridiculously humid.

- The people/other volunteers were all great! Even the ones that stopped in the Member Center to offer their feedback on things they didn't like were respectful about it.

- I'm a big Warbird fan, so the amount of planes I got to witness and photograph on Wednesday morning was fantastic! I'm happy anytime there's 3+ Corsairs onsite, and I saw at least 5.

- WomenVenture getting its own, large tent finally. I'm glad EAA continues to invest and expand that.

- Food options, as someone else mentioned, the food trucks in a few new spots were welcomed additions to the typical offerings like A&W, Benvenutos, etc.

- The app and the new framework design within whole "EAA Events" concept. I only had one "bad" item for this below, but I thought it was MUCH more functional and versatile this year with neat features like a quick-scroll feature to the schedule based on the current time, the food vendor map, and the various filters to weed out what you didn't want.

The Bad:
- The whole 75th Anniversary of the Air Force seemed a little over-hyped. I guess my own expectations were higher thinking they'd have some more elaborate or impressive involvement in the air shows, at least the expanded shows. Anything involving Air Force wasn't really different from previous years except for maybe the C-17 "demo" flight. The C-5 making a visit was cool, but that's not "75th anniversary" cool by itself. The C-5, C-17, KC-46, and F-15 that left Sunday could have at least made one pass before heading onward. As for static display in Boeing Plaza, there's been a number of those same aircraft almost every year (including the fighter jets), so I don't really see what the impact was of the Air Force "...supporting three or four civilian shows for the anniversary..."

- Traffic on Knapp St. was probably the heaviest I've ever witness at OSH. Non-stop, and especially at non-controlled intersections that lacked Security directing traffic there were definitely some near misses. To be fair, there were a lot of folks just aimlessly wandering down the center of roads or drifting across them, too. The intersection at Celebration Way was definitely the busiest, that being the main thoroughfare.

- Definitely an uptick in vehicles/golf carts traversing Celebration way that shouldn't have been.

- No GPS feature of the app. Unless I just didn't figure it out, it seemed like the feature to show your position on the map was gone this year. This is mostly a carry over from feedback I had from some attendees, as I know where stuff is but I agree it was a handy feature.

- The "Wall of Fire" on Saturday night's air show seem like a real let down. I remember that being a lot larger and more intense. I wasn't at Wednesday night's show to compare, but definitely from previous years and photos from others it seemed underwhelming. Minor gripe, tho, as I thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the show/performances!

- I also miss Ford. A lot of people missed Ford. They were way more interactive and exciting than Boeing was, which seemed to just be all static info displays and the merch shop. It's great they're a top sponsor, but I really hope they up their game in the coming years.

- WiFi was definitely hit or miss. It wasn't so much that I could not find a hotspot, it was more that the quality of the connection was sporadic. Even in the Member Center tent, sometimes it was slower than 5G on my phone, and other times I'd try using it, it was pretty fast. Interesting about the comments regarding cell service. I have Verizon and didn't have any overall issue other than 5G at times was slow due to saturation, but another volunteer one of the days during the week had major issues with T-Mobile. Early in the day he could only get incoming calls but not make outbound calls. Then in the afternoon he lost full service entirely. A few others who had T-Mobile we learned later had the exact same problem and it wasn't rectified until later that night.

The Ugly:
Not really anything which was that bad to list here.

mazdaP5

08-01-2022, 01:01 PM

It's closed, but most of the planes that were in the Eagle Hangar are out side if you want to see them. They have that hangar setup for the large fundraising banquets.

I understand why, I just think it's a bad way to treat your guests. They do not after all, park the 1/72nd scale Enterprise model outside. Nor the Corsair that the EAA JUST featured in Sport Aviation.

RhinoIA

08-01-2022, 01:01 PM

I'm a little more focused on the air show part of Airventure, so my comments may be a bit weighted towards that end, but here we go:

The Good
The MiG-29 and Polaris demo
The United 777 demo early in the week
F-35C and Growler teams (these made up for the lack of USAF participation, more on that below)
Express camping entry
The volunteers in Vintage are the best group and we love sitting to watch the shows in that area.

The bad
Scholler really needs some love and attention:

The shower houses that AREN'T the one at the South end on Stits. They have needed an upgrade years ago and they are continually getting worse.

After the Saturday night storm and deluge, many of the roads west of Stits became mud holes. It seems if you were east of Stits the areas were rolled dry, but there were many areas west that were just left muddy and wet with huge ruts.

The cell service is atttrocious for all providers. If the providers aren't going to help out, build out a bigger wifi infrastructure.

It seems like there was a huge increase in golf cart traffic on the grounds inside the gates. I can't count how many times I saw an exhibitor almost ran people over.

Can we get the airshows to start earlier? I can understand the argument that earlier in the week, a 2:30 start time helps get arrivals in, but I think later in the week you could easily start at 11 or Noon and have the shows done by 4. This would allow people to go back to camp, eat, refresh, then come back for evening events such as the STOL field, movie, Theater in the Woods, etc.

Ugly
Whoo boy. The airshows. So much of what was advertised, promised, hyped, etc. simply didn't happen, along with the absolutely anemic participation of USAF assets.

The F-100 didn't make it, with several reputable sources saying that the owner was upset that EAA only scheduled him to fly ONCE during the entire week. The F-100 was prominently featured on several items of merchandise and posters/etc. Not a good look, EAA.

The USAF Aggressors from Nellis were a no-show, after being continuously hyped during pre-show webinars. With Red Flag happening and scheduled during the same week, how was that ever going to happen?

The warbirds shows were pretty bare, with Friday and Saturday particularly being bad. These, again, were hyped during pre-show webinars. They simply didn't live up.

azmedic85355

08-01-2022, 01:17 PM

The Bad:

- WiFi was definitely hit or miss. It wasn't so much that I could not find a hotspot, it was more that the quality of the connection was sporadic. Even in the Member Center tent, sometimes it was slower than 5G on my phone, and other times I'd try using it, it was pretty fast. Interesting about the comments regarding cell service. I have Verizon and didn't have any overall issue other than 5G at times was slow due to saturation, but another volunteer one of the days during the week had major issues with T-Mobile. Early in the day he could only get incoming calls but not make outbound calls. Then in the afternoon he lost full service entirely. A few others who had T-Mobile we learned later had the exact same problem and it wasn't rectified until later that night.

The Ugly:
Not really anything which was that bad to list here.

T-Mobile user here…I got to camp Thursday night and left after the show Saturday night. Service in Scholler was almost non existent the entire time beyond the occasional iMessages and sporadic web browsing activity. Service improved modestly inside the show grounds and the WiFi was semi usable. That being said it was a nice break from the constant being tethered to the social media world for a few days. I’m not sure there’s a good way to rectify this going forward short of putting up a ton of temporary towers

Kyle Boatright

08-01-2022, 01:47 PM

The Good:

- The overall convention/show. Incredible as always.

- The volunteers. Great people - all of them.

- Walking by a tram on the North/South line and hearing a guy telling cornball jokes. Just to be sure, I made a point to check ChicagoRandy's name badge. He was busy, so I didn't make introductions.

- The overall friendliness of the crowd. We bummed several rides in everything from golf carts to big 'ol pickups, were never in danger of getting run over, and (as always) enjoyed talking to a variety of people.

Things that Could have been Better:

-Arrivals and departures. On arrival and departure days (I'll call Saturday and Sunday arrival days, and Thursday morning a departure day - there may be more.), someone needs to find a way to discourage "out and back" flights by various groups, primarily the warbirds. You've got hundreds of airplanes inbound (or holding on a taxiway to depart) and various warbird groups cut to the front of the departure line repeatedly, do time consuming runway hogging full length departures, and cycle repeatedly giving rides. EAA has to put a bigger focus on getting airplanes in and out rather than letting the warbirds monopolize the runways. I sat on the taxiway for over an hour on Thursday waiting to depart while cycling warbirds repeatedly derailed the departures.

- Food - blaargh. The items I bought on site were mediocre at best. I can deal with high prices, but high prices and mediocre food are a poor combination. Maybe there's a food truck park onsite and I missed it. It seems like Airventure would be food truck heaven, drawing in every truck from 50 miles around.

- I kinda felt burned by the camping fees. Four of us arrived in one airplane and camped under the wing in two small tents. We had to pay two camping fees @$300 ea since we were not all directly related. The rule around that is probably published somewhere, but was an unexpected money grab at what's already a fairly expensive event. Next year, I'll bring the 6 person tent that occupies acres of territory and will only pay one "site" fee.

Mayhemxpc

08-01-2022, 03:37 PM

I definitely agree about the USAF’s 75th being the main event. You would never know it from what was displayed, flown and otherwise shown. From my perspective, no difference from previous years.

Regarding warbirds being notable for their absence on Friday and Saturday. Departure of aircraft if all types, including warbirds, is typical starting on Thursday, with Sunday being VERY sparse. There was an additional factor in that the Dayton AirShow was this past weekend. I volunteer at the Warbirds tower, and most of the warbirds departing on Friday announced that they were on the way to Dayton.

Mayhemxpc

08-01-2022, 03:51 PM

Out and back flights, I agree with the sentiment, but there are some practicalities. Most notable is that the formation flights have to be rehearsed. The morning is rehearsal time. There are also sponsor flights. Not sure what I can say about that, it is what it is…but most of those are actually flown from Appleton (where the B-17 flies from). You might as well ask the Tri-Motor not to fly in the mornings, either.

From my perch in the Warbirds tower, I did not notice any preferential treatment being given to the warbirds for departure. Maybe the FAA tower was doing that, but it didn’t seem to me that they were bumped ahead in line for departures.

Food trucks. They were around, at different places throughout the grounds, or at least North of Boeing Plaza. (I didn’t get south of the Vintage display circle this year.) I was surprised at their presence and they seemed to offer a variety of food and were popular.

Kyle Boatright

08-01-2022, 04:47 PM

Out and back flights, I agree with the sentiment, but there are some practicalities. Most notable is that the formation flights have to be rehearsed. The morning is rehearsal time. There are also sponsor flights. Not sure what I can say about that, it is what it is…but most of those are actually flown from Appleton (where the B-17 flies from). You might as well ask the Tri-Motor not to fly in the mornings, either.

I mentioned one morning (Thursday) which is a big departure morning. I didn't suggest morning flights be banned, what I did suggest is to discourage out and back flights at peak arrival and departure times. I sat in the departure line for 36 for over an hour on Thursday morning watching as the Aeroshell team was moved to the front of the line and cycled twice, the Rapid Rabbit went from parking to the front of the line (and requested full length), and an Albatross did the same. Same for T-28's, Mustangs, and other warbirds (plus the Trimotor). I'm sure that traces back to the TBM eating the RV-6 on the parallel taxiway a few years ago, but cycling the warbirds to the front of the line every time isn't the answer either.

I love warbirds. But it makes no sense that they get vastly better treatment on arrivals and departures than everyone else who flies into the show.

Serenity_Valley

08-01-2022, 06:36 PM

Reiterating some of what's been said, all the workers and volunteers I encountered were very friendly and helpful.

Until some of you mentioned it, I had completely forgotten that the USAF 75th anniversary was celebrated this year. I didn't see much difference in the show lineup or onsite presence.

The variety of food options on the grounds was pretty decent; the expanded presence of food trucks is a welcome addition. There was definitely a noticeable increase in prices though. Three chicken tenders and a small basket of cheese curds from the Hangar Cafe set me back $21.

I'd really like to see more water fountains or water bottle filling stations on the grounds. There are only a few, widely scattered, and the bottle filler at every single one did not work. It's nice that they keep the bottled water price at a reasonable $2, but I'd rather just refill my Nalgene somewhere.

Visited the Seaplane Base for the first time in several years and it was a pretty smooth process. About a 20 minute wait for a bus down by Ultralights (with a South 40 bus, I don't know how many Seaplane buses they had in circulation), and then a 15 minute wait for a bus to leave the base. A little busier down there than I remember, but still pretty quiet.

I keep saying it every year, but EAA really needs to expand Camp Scholler in a major way. We're one of the midweek arrivals, and we always expect to be out by the highway somewhere, but man, just when I think the previous year is as far away as we'll ever camp, there we are, camped right across the ditch from Ripple Rd, at the end of 3rd St. We didn't have a tenter this year, but that end of the campground is now 24-hr generator area, supposedly no tents allowed, but what does EAA expect? All the other camping areas are full by the weekend before. If you arrive during the show with a tent, you have no choice but to camp in the 24-hr generator area. We had numerous tents in our neighborhood.

The crowd for Top Gun: Maverick was by far the biggest I've ever seen at the Fly-In Theater. I understand putting your chairs out early to save a spot, but if you do that, then you still need to show up pretty early and physically sit in your chairs. Someone had several bag chairs laying on the ground a couple rows ahead of us, and as the crowds continued to pile in, eventually someone just shoved them aside and sat there. The chair owners didn't show up until 9:00 pm, in the dark, as the movie was starting. They grabbed their chairs and presumably left, because I don't think there was an open patch of grass left anywhere. Also some folks just down from us, with chairs waiting, also arrived pretty late and had to cram themselves into the row, only for two of them to leave the movie early. Just some bad etiquette from several attendees. Overall though, a good crowd.

The weather was absolutely phenomenal. Comfortable during the day, nice and cool at night. Usually my camper stays too warm and I don't sleep well at Oshkosh, but this year was a refreshing change of pace.

Overall, a great way to spend my 25th convention.

turtle

08-02-2022, 12:33 AM

I think the general theme for 2022 can be summed up as “Why should we make an effort? You’re going to come anyway.”

The good
Wednesday night fireworks. Some of the best we’ve ever seen.

The bad
Wednesday night airshow. Most of the performers were phoning it in. Can’t say I looked up once during the daytime shows.

The whole show itself. There seemed to be no big draw this year. Boeing square was like an afterthought, nothing worth the walk. Seaplane base was almost empty. No Monday concert. No Ford. The usual excitement was missing his year. Lots of empty vendor space, and the ones that showed up were downsized. (except the massage chair people)

Trams. When it’s busy, they need to kick people off when it gets to the end. Too many people going in circles while others are waiting in the heat mid route only to be passed by.

The ugly
Food. Prices seemed to be even more outrageous than normal. Portions smaller. More names but less selection. And what’s up with tram conductors shilling for the food carts? Kickbacks? Chapter pancake breakfasts shutting down early.

Scooters and golf carts. I swear I’m the only person there without one. Kids riding one-wheels through vintage. Electric bikes and trikes everywhere. Slap a handicap sticker on your Harley and they’d probably let you do donuts around the brown arch. How are there so many families in vehicles at the night airshow?

Dirt bikes and ATV’s in Scholler. Licensed drivers my pasty white a==. A big side by side driven by pre-teens into bike parking with their parents in the back. Two kids on dirt bikes doing high speed laps through the non-generator area every night. It’s the same every year, yet nothing gets done about it. As the primary focus of the show is money, start fining people.

The after fly-in theater / night airshow crowd. These are the most ignorant, entitled people you’ll ever come across. Anybody trying to move faster gets deliberately blocked. Bicycles, buses, and god help you if you end up close to the area in a car, get swarmed and will not be allowed to exceed walking speed. These people would block an ambulance just to share their misery.

CHICAGORANDY

08-02-2022, 06:10 AM

"Trams. When it’s busy, they need to kick people off when it gets to the end. Too many people going in circles while others are waiting in the heat mid route only to be passed by."

To this one I can speak. I conducted 9 straight days of the morning Blue tram. I ALWAYS tried to leave both terminals (the Yellow-Blue and the Blue-School buses) with one empty bench on my tram, regardless of the line at the terminal. That way at least 5 folks waiting at the first stop were guaranteed a seat. Tram management IS aware of the concerns and in the future will be sending an empty tram out from the terminals to help clear the down-route stops after 2-3 full trams leave. ALL the tram conductors are aware that the trams are to be run as point-to-point conveyances. They are to be emptied at each end pont before new passengers may board. I can assure you that NONE of my trams moved up for new passengers before they first were completely empty. The tram terminal safety officers also worked hard to assure the policy was enforced. We are well aware that 'some' folks would like nothing better than to just sit on a tram for hours and go round and round.

Bottom line? Some 50-70 THOUSAND attendees are on the grounds EACH day. A tram can carry 35-40 at a time. Dang, we gotta make a whole lot of trips to keep everyone happy. I'm also pretty doggone sure EAA and Wittman are NOT gonna install a mile and a half of moving sidewalks anytime soon. So about all we can do is the best we can do and hope everyone understands.

COMMERCIAL MESSAGE - VOLUNTEERS are always welcome and necessary to the tram operation. It takes two volunteers per tram to put one on the street each 6 hour shift, plus extra relief drivers and conductors. Minimum age for a tractor driver is 21, conductor is 18. YOU could be part of the solution next year. They welcome ALL volunteers who can work as many days as they can.

Here is their e-mail address to reach out to tram management - airventuretrams@gmail.com

mazdaP5

08-02-2022, 06:31 AM

I actually wasn't too bothered by food prices this year. Yes they are high, but food prices are high across the board, and the Airventure prices were closer to outside prices than they had been the last few years.

As for the after airshow crowds heading back into Scholler, I would love a 20-30 minute no vehicle traffic time so that the pedestrians can safely walk back to camp without fear of being run over by vehicle folks trying to drive faster than the speed of the surrounding traffic.

FlyinAdamBadger

08-02-2022, 01:51 PM

Randy,

Please tell your chairperson that I liked all the tram routes and bus stops this year that were in the admission gates. The new stop at Vintage and the Flightline was a great addition and I used that stop a lot. I also used it to get to the the air shows, Boeing Plaza and the Vintage area.

Back home to my Chicago 'hood - sigh - after a near 4 hour drive following my 8-4:30ish tram conducting shift today. THANKS Milwaukee for shutting down a stretch of the VITAL North-South expressway, forcing ALL traffic to divert to surface streets. Oh joy, oh rapture. But I'm safely home none the less.

This year I worked the Blue tram route all 9 days on the morning 8:00-2:00 shift. The dedicated 'road preservationists' at Wittman were able to keep ALL the prior big potholes and heavy bumps and even added a few new ones, just to keep one's internal organs from getting complacent staying in one spot. The weather IMHO was PHENOMENAL and was the longest stretch of nice conditions that I can remember. Airplane people are good people, the crowds were substantial and as always 99.99% of the attendees with whom I had the pleasure of interacting were a treat. As I expected there were of course two or three unpleasant souls, but I think that for those few the worst thing that hurts their happiness is that everywhere they go, they bring themselves along.

I now begin counting down the days till next AirVenture, and oh yes indeed, I've already secured my motel room reservatiuons for next year.

bmckinney

08-02-2022, 07:46 PM

No ugly for me. I love going every year, despite some annoyances...

The Good
- Meeting many new people on EZ Street and sharing info about my VariEze and other canards onsite. They are slowly being brought back to life and increasing in numbers each year!
- Being around all the planes
- Great volunteers, happy and helpful

The Bad
- The "E" in EAA is slowly deteriorating. Walk down the main entrance path and only see multi-million dollar planes you will NEVER fly. Seems confusing to new people.
- Just ONE homebuilt showcase flyby the entire week (Tuesday with 12 planes). EAA is forgetting their roots. Sad.

The Annoying
- I am hoping next year's theme is "The Year of the Ultralight or Sailplane". The jets everyday doing 50 afterburner passes is a bit much.
- EAA Security expecting 20,000 people to exit through one 5' wide gate opening after the night show to the campgrounds and not one car using the 30' wide "Autos Only" gate.
- Daily airshows were very weak, bad planning and lengthy delays between acts. 5 flip-flop plane acts are too many in one show. More homebuilt flybys please. Remember, E-A-A!
- EAA claiming we were lucky to still get free popcorn at the Fly-In theatre without the major sponsor (Ford). Not making enough with $30/$75 campsites in an overloaded campground?

kwingram

08-02-2022, 09:38 PM

The Good

All of the learning opportunities, both presentations and workshops. Hands on learning is hard to beat. Listening to someone who has done something like a first flight before likewise. I heard Paul Dye for the first time, really valuable information. Commercial classes such as Garmin's also valuable.

Volunteers, I am very thankful for all of the folks who give of their time to make this event a success. As mentioned elsewhere, you're going to have some misses, but by and large we all do pretty well. Looking forward to doing more in the future.

Sunday service before show in the chapel near Pioneer Airport, always awesome worship here!

Camp check-In was as fast as I have ever experienced, as was the refund for unused days when we left on Thursday.

Red One camp stores, EAA needs to be commended for their efforts here, most of your basics covered and with the exception of sunscreen, (and maybe alcohol, I didn't check) at prices lower than Target down town for like merchandise. Many $2 items and quick checkouts from friendly folks.

I got to meet chicagorandy and hear some of his catalog. An ambassador for the fly in for sure. Thank You Randy.

I finally got to see the Wednesday night show. It was neat to see something new, the Mig was a highlight. The fireworks were phenomenal! The crowds and getting out and back to camp was not pleasant, as others have mentioned, there needs to be a way to let pedestrians flow out more easily.

The Bad

The EAA App may have been improved in some ways but the mapping is almost useless. Previously you could use the GPS to see where you were in relation to where you wanted to be. If it is there, I couldn't find it.

Cell service, pretty predictably was good Thursday before show and down to almost unusable by Sunday evening. I'm with Verizon but it sounds like all of the carriers share the problems. Thousands upon thousands of phones and devices all wanting data, and I'm not sure if any of the carriers realize just how big this event has become.

The Ugly

Camp Sholler needs some way to enforce the motorized vehicles running all night. As someone else mentioned, the policy of only licensed drivers is not even remotely enforced. Someone is going to get hurt eventually and the lawyers will have a money making opportunity. The idiots riding the unmuffled minibike(s) around the campgrounds like a race track need to be followed back and evicted with NO REFUND of fees. No one is going to miss these kinds of folks, and maybe they would quit coming. It wasn't kids in this case either, mid 40's delinquent, I was ready to throw a trash can at him.

There were also numerous other ATV's running all hours of the night. If a generator is too loud after 10:30 p.m. why are ATV's still alllowed to run? If you need to take a motorized set of wheels to showers do it before 10:30. A bike will get you there pretty easily and in near silence.

These issues would probably require hiring some security with teeth to do something, it would be money well spent. Perhaps a few years of culling the bad apples might improve things long term. There is obviously no shortage of people wanting to come in.

It was a big crowd, and a good time, Thanks EAA for getting it done again.

Jeremy S

08-03-2022, 05:36 AM

CHICAGORANDY

08-03-2022, 06:48 AM

Sincere HUGE kudos and THANKS to the EAA brass who listened to our long-standing annual complaints about poor tram signage. The new color-coded tall TRAM pylons on both sides of the road were a big hit with tram workers and attendees alike. Having each tram pylon list the next stop for that tram was also appreciated.

Next on the Tram Volunteers' wish list is of course making an attempt to re-pave or at least pothole patch the roads we use. That long stretch of 'road' from the Vintage corner to the South 40 bus stop is a real challenge and bone shaker. We must slow down to a near stop frequently to go over some of the biggest ruts to avoid launching riders into the air, and very little of the route could be called 'smooth'. When you are working on that tram for 6 hour stretches it is a bigger issue than a casual mention might suggest. I'm sure the situation on the Yellow and Red routes is similar. Being able to maintain a constant speed would also improve the tram turnarounds so more attendees coud be transported.

jb1842

08-03-2022, 08:20 AM

Camp Scholler-The shower houses do need an upgrade. It would be nice if they added flush toilets. The port a potties were well maintained for the most part, but sweating in a plastic bubble gets old real quick. And they aren't the most user friendly for small children. A regular toilet would be very welcome.

And if we are spending our membership money, how about adding some electric only sites? I would be happy just for electric to run the AC and keep the drinks/food cold. New RVs have gotten away from propane appliances, and house batteries aren't as good (unless you drop a lot on upgraded batteries and solar panels/generators) at keeping a charge. I think adding electric only sites and charging maybe $10 more than a regular site would be a real winner. It might take a couple years to make back the money on the investment, but they will make it back.

FlyingRon

08-03-2022, 10:49 AM

The weather (other than that firset blow) was pretty good this year. Mostly around 80 during the day and cooler at night.
The show seemed pretty good.

The downside for me was the apparent problems with EAA security staffing. Many gates weren't manned at all. In fact, I was standing at the unattended pedestrian gate near the Binder house and some security supervisor came up and started talking to me like I was working there. I pointed out that I was just waiting for a friend to go to dinner and that there had not been any security person there for the ten minutes I had been waiting.

That gate is a major path for those in Scholler to get into the Vintage area. Oddly, while there are bike racks at the Theatre in the Woods area gate and at the Ultralight area, there are none here. A few days when there was actually someone manning the gate, he abrasively told people they couldn't leave bikes, etc... chained to the fence near there because "it looked tacky."

While Margy and I were doing the exhibits we stopped by Honda. Sitting in front of the Honda "tent" was one of their side-by-side off road things that are starting to become the rage around our airport. I walked close to it to peer inside it (it had one of these NASCAR-style nets for a side window) and some abusive guy in a yellow security shirt ran me (and others nearby) away from the exhibit.

Internet/phones worked pretty well this year though both Verizon and ATT were unusable on Wednesday and Saturday afternoons. Internal communications were hampered this year by the EAA contracting out to some lowball bidder for rental radios that yielded some no-name Chinese junk that had a mix of several DOA units and the rest not reliably communicating with the repeater.

At least this year they didn't take the portable toilets away before the show was over, though the rate of service during the peak days (again Wednesday and Saturday) wasn't up to the task and there were long lines in the busiest of areas (like the bank between the Vintage and Hangar Cafes).

FlyingRon

08-03-2022, 10:59 AM

FlyingRon

08-03-2022, 11:00 AM

I forgot to mention the cellular service problem. 3 of us in my group had Verizon. My friend with an iPhone had no issues, but the two of us with Samsung phones basically had no service most of the time. Maybe the iPhone could sense the tower being overloaded and was pinging a different tower thats farther away?

I don't recall have phone issue in past years.

It's always been a mess. It has gotten better. In previous years it's been near unusable during the actual show. This year, it only really crapped out completley (at least ATT and Verizon) on Wednesday and Saturday afternoons. We had a mix of phones and none worked.

mcmurphy

08-03-2022, 12:09 PM

The good: The weather this year was the best I can remember. The tram service was good, with one notable exception. Even at it's worst Airventure is the place to be.

The bad: 1) I arrived at Camp Scholler on Sunday afternoon and soon discovered I hadn't packed any mustard. Went to two camp stores and both were sold out and they never got any in. How do you run out of #$%&* mustard and not restock the shelf for the rest of the week?
2) 3 out of the four blue water fountains that I tried to use did not work. I don't know if the airport or the EAA are responsible for their upkeep and maintenance but either way the fact they they weren't working is unforgivable.
3) The blue tram line needed twice as many units as they had. If you were wanting to go northbound you were walking because every single northbound tram was full and people rarely got off.
4) The shirt and hat selection from the EAA shops was terrible. I usually get a t shirt, polo shirt and a hat every year. The polo shirt selection was basically an overpriced ad for Nike. Someone needs to fired for this.
5) The USAF didn't show up for their 75th birthday party. No B1, B2, B52, F22 et al.
6) No Ford presence. Kind of like having Bob Hope not being part of the USO shows during the Viet Nam War. They may have had a good reason for not being there, but it just didn't feel right. I can't help but think that there were some behind the scenes shenanigans by the EAA.
7) No notice of Proposed Rule Making concerning MOSAIC by the FAA. We have been told to expect something soon since there was a supposed "set in concrete" Congressionally mandated deadline of Dec. 31st 2023. The FAA administrator when asked about MOSAIC had one of his lackeys stand up and say "it's been really hard" and then announce that the NPRM will be made public in August of 2023. I was very disappointed that Jack Pelton didn't press this issue any further because of how it will affect many of the people attending Airventure.

FlyingRon

08-03-2022, 02:04 PM

Here's the post-show ugly. I got a message from the EAA asking my opinion, but goes to a 404 page on surveymonkey when clicked.

Further, the post has an obnoxious privacy invasion (tracking pixels) as part of their commercial spam provider.

FlyingRon

08-03-2022, 02:19 PM

Additional ugliness. Despite previous lawsuits and consent orders the EAA still persists in failing to comply with basic ADA requirements. We again had disabled members abused by security at the gates and this year an elderly and quite obviously disabled couple (one was using a walker) were told that there was no "handicapped parking" and were relegated to the overflow lots. While there were shuttle buses to take them into the show, these (as in previous years) disappeared after the night airshow. We were fortunate in securing a lift for them from near the Hangar Cafe to their car (which they weren't even sure exactly where it was... thank you Jim Brown for doing this). I don't know what would have happened if we hadn't intervened.

This isn't the first time this has happened. A few years ago I luckily had access to a golf cart to run a woman and her children out to the gray lot after the shuttles vanished.

While the south 40 shuttle bus appeared to thankfully be in operation, in the half an hour I sat with these people, I saw no evidence that the bus that is supposed to replace the trams after hours (which according to the schedule circulated was supposed to still be running) ever came. Many people inquired about this from us, but most just gave up and walked out.

Tom Charpentier

08-03-2022, 03:02 PM

7) No notice of Proposed Rule Making concerning MOSAIC by the FAA. We have been told to expect something soon since there was a supposed "set in concrete" Congressionally mandated deadline of Dec. 31st 2023. The FAA administrator when asked about MOSAIC had one of his lackeys stand up and say "it's been really hard" and then announce that the NPRM will be made public in August of 2023. I was very disappointed that Jack Pelton didn't press this issue any further because of how it will affect many of the people attending Airventure.

Work on MOSAIC took up most of our week in Advocacy, and the announcement of the August 2023 NPRM for MOSAIC is actually significant progress. Yes, there is the September 30, 2023 Congressional mandate tied to UAS regulation, but that only applies to the UAS components that have been part of the MOSAIC package.

An announcement of an NPRM date was by no means guaranteed at the beginning of AirVenture week. Over four days we met with officials from the Department of Transportation and many offices within the FAA including Flight Standards and Aircraft Certification, both of which are key players in the development of MOSAIC. While the details of the rule will continue to be developed over the next months, public comments made during the event by the FAA indicate that the rulemaking will be "narrower" than first envisioned. EAA staff advocated strongly that changes important to EAA members, chief among them those surrounding LSA, remain as part of the slimmed-down rule (in some ways, a simpler rule could help us in the long run). In addition to our meetings, we used AirVenture’s unique setting to show officials the actual airplanes that would be affected by the new rule.

While not having an NPRM released at this year’s event was frustrating on one level, having a specific date set for an NPRM and the opportunity to advocate one-on-one with the DOT and FAA regarding the benefits that will be gained by MOSAIC highlights the tremendous value of AirVenture and the EAA community.

mazdaP5

08-03-2022, 04:15 PM

Bob Kaestner

08-03-2022, 05:29 PM

second surveymonkey link worked, some selected comments:

Volunteers were great in general with special mention to the folks at Express Arrival / Camper Registration and KidVenture. The weather was of course spectacular (EAA can't take credit for that).

The proliferation of golf carts, personal automobiles and other motorized devices on the show grounds is out of control. I can understand vendors needing vehicles during show hours while their exhibits are open. How can you possibly justify their use in the evening to attend the night airshow. Most seem to be driven by otherwise fit, younger adults and many showed utter disregard for the safety of pedestrians. Are you waiting for an attendee to be maimed or killed before you take action and reign these things in?

EAA Security is ineffective. As an example at the Wed. night airshow pedestrians were subjected to TSA-style shakedown at the entry gate while motorized vehicles were waved through without a second glance. Old women and children were forced to open and show their camp chairs - DISGRACEFUL. My wife and son waited in that pedestrian queue for nearly 30 minutes to get into the night airshow. I on the other hand drove my mobility scooter through one of the vehicle entrances carrying a basket full of electronic devices and a large concealed backpack of other personal items. The EAA Security person at the vehicle gate barely looked up from her phone.

While leaving the Wed. night airshow, a golf cart carrying 4 young men intentionally bumped into my wife and did so again when she didn't immediately get out of their way. She reported this to EAA Security staff who stated: "Yeah, those golf carts are a real problem". Needless to say we did not attend the Saturday night show. I doubt we will ever again until EAA takes action.

turtle

08-03-2022, 05:50 PM

Additional ugliness. Despite previous lawsuits and consent orders the EAA still persists in failing to comply with basic ADA requirements.
What's the solution?

As I said, there were kids riding one-wheels through vintage. Another ran up to an electric trike (with handicap sticker) and was spinning the tire riding off. There were so many of Spencer Aircraft's Jupiter bikes riding around inside the grounds they must give a free sticker with every purchase. All these people got in somehow, and very few were disabled. It might be good to call out a clueless security guard, but in general, the only way the EAA could make a bigger effort would be to treat everyone as disabled and give anyone who arrives a personal golf cart.

Security at the show is a joke anyway. A volunteer with "20 years of doing security" was adamant about there being no such thing as a no generator area in scholler, and wanted me to walk all the way back to take a picture of the sign someone must have "illegally put up". Can't expect someone like that to have heard of the lawsuits. Hell, a guy operating one of the handicap helper golf carts had never heard of them or any orders and he's been doing that for decades.

FlyingRon

08-04-2022, 03:31 AM

Vendors should be using the expo company (at least during prime hours) rather than driving into the exhibit areas.

We had a vendor on a green machine barrelling down Wittman road at full speed (unsafe even for the heavy pedestrians) who blew a stop sign AND was ignoring the volunteers holding the stop signs up while a Howard was making the crossing there north of the Hangar Cafe. I stepped in front of him to stop him. Fortunately, I was able to snap his picture before he rode off and got it to Vintage security to hunt down. Had I not stopped him, he would have likely nailed the crossing aircraft. He was entirely oblivious to his surroundings.

jb1842

08-04-2022, 08:46 AM

I had a 2 wheeled electric standup scooter I used to get around as I am disabled. I had some issues with security, but most were cool after I pointed out my sticker. I made sure to keep it to the speed of people walking, didn't ride it in any building, and walked it in congested areas, which is EAAs rules. That should apply to all vehicles on the grounds. If not, pull their sticker and ban the vehicle from the grounds.

Mayhemxpc

08-04-2022, 08:35 PM

As for the after airshow crowds heading back into Scholler, I would love a 20-30 minute no vehicle traffic time so that the pedestrians can safely walk back to camp without fear of being run over by vehicle folks trying to drive faster than the speed of the surrounding traffic.

+1

Airmutt

08-05-2022, 07:59 AM

Between the City of Oshkosh, Winnebago County Sheriff’s Department and EAA Security did anyone see any traffic enforcement other than directing traffic at congested intersections??? Come on EAA how are you going to deal with the unlit golf carts, mini bikes etc. especially at night? The proliferation of e-bikes that can top out around 30 mph appears to have caught EAA off guard. Unfortunately the road structure of Camp Scholler is just not designed for that level of volume of pedestrian and vehicle traffic. The massive numbers of UTVs, scooters, bikes, etc parked from the Waukau Ave vehicle gate around the Main Gate and beyond the Paul’s Woods Gate was eye watering. While it may have been a record year for attendance, EAA is going to have to do a better job at anticipating and dealing with the issues associated with such numbers. Sorry Jack, for vehicle control you get a grade of D.

turtle

08-05-2022, 11:20 AM

While the proliferation of e-bikes might have caught them off guard, the other sorts of off-road vehicles have been a problem for a very long time. Scholler has been a free for all for as long as I've been going. Dirt bikes to entertain the kids is common. There seems to be a competition for who has the most expensive RV and who has the fanciest vehicle to ride to the gates in. Even after a big storm, you don't need a UTV the size of a pickup to go get pancakes. Nor the full bagger Harley you trailered in.

The EAA needs to not only fix the problem, but explain why they have deliberately done nothing for so many years.

mcmurphy

08-05-2022, 11:37 AM

Work on MOSAIC took up most of our week in Advocacy, and the announcement of the August 2023 NPRM for MOSAIC is actually significant progress. Yes, there is the September 30, 2023 Congressional mandate tied to UAS regulation, but that only applies to the UAS components that have been part of the MOSAIC package.

An announcement of an NPRM date was by no means guaranteed at the beginning of AirVenture week. Over four days we met with officials from the Department of Transportation and many offices within the FAA including Flight Standards and Aircraft Certification, both of which are key players in the development of MOSAIC. While the details of the rule will continue to be developed over the next months, public comments made during the event by the FAA indicate that the rulemaking will be "narrower" than first envisioned. EAA staff advocated strongly that changes important to EAA members, chief among them those surrounding LSA, remain as part of the slimmed-down rule (in some ways, a simpler rule could help us in the long run). In addition to our meetings, we used AirVenture’s unique setting to show officials the actual airplanes that would be affected by the new rule.

While not having an NPRM released at this year’s event was frustrating on one level, having a specific date set for an NPRM and the opportunity to advocate one-on-one with the DOT and FAA regarding the benefits that will be gained by MOSAIC highlights the tremendous value of AirVenture and the EAA community.

Thanks for the information Tom. I attended a forum at Airventure concerning MOSAIC last year and it seems there hasn't been much progress since then. A few comments: Is the EAA working with the FAA more than one week a year? How can I information and updates on the progress being made. Also the comment that the rulemaking will be "narrower" does not sound good and makes me nervous. I will admit that most of what I know about MOSAIC comes from Dan Johnson's articles and videos and I think that is where I heard that there was a deadline of Dec. 31st 2023. I appreciate what the EAA is doing in our behalf, I just wish we could get more information from the EAA or the FAA about what is being proposed or considered.

Tom Charpentier

08-05-2022, 02:24 PM

Thanks for the information Tom. I attended a forum at Airventure concerning MOSAIC last year and it seems there hasn't been much progress since then. A few comments: Is the EAA working with the FAA more than one week a year? How can I information and updates on the progress being made. Also the comment that the rulemaking will be "narrower" does not sound good and makes me nervous. I will admit that most of what I know about MOSAIC comes from Dan Johnson's articles and videos and I think that is where I heard that there was a deadline of Dec. 31st 2023. I appreciate what the EAA is doing in our behalf, I just wish we could get more information from the EAA or the FAA about what is being proposed or considered.

Fair question and comment. The short answer is yes, we’re working every week on MOSAIC, through regular check-ins with the staff writing the rule and participating on the ASTM committee that is working to front-load the updates to the consensus standards. AirVenture is when we have all of the executives in one place and with their full attention, and an additional wrinkle this year is that most of the senior people are new in their roles. This was the first good opportunity to voice our priorities to them. Building off of last week, we’ll be following up with senior staff in DC soon.

“Narrowing” doesn’t necessarily mean that what we want is out of the rule. Remember that MOSAIC started out as a massive, omnibus rule that included UAS, eVTOL, and other stuff in addition to LSA and Sport Pilot. As long as it still includes the latter, and we have no reason to believe it doesn’t, a “narrower” MOSAIC isn’t bad.

Because of federal laws on active rule writing, there are limits to what the FAA can communicate with us regarding details. You’re correct that we went awhile without communicating concrete updates, but we’ll share as much as we can in the coming months.