Airventure: Good, Bad, and Ugly

[FlyingRon]

GOOD:

Great to be back.
Food service definitely seems to continue to improve in quality and diversity.
Vehicle-free areas much better enforced this year.
SOS brothers ran a very efficient food/beer service operation and had neat shirts this year.
Some new stuff in the airshow (loved the Blimp acro).
Very good housekeeping service on the yellow shower trailers, lots of hot water.

BAD:

The WIFI and ATT cell data was awful.
The Airventure app sucks when you can't connect to the internet (jeez, all that downloading and it doesn't have offline storage?).
Idiots who bring dogs to airshows and fireworks displays.
More accidents than usual on the runway it would seem.
All the food service shutdown very early (4PM? or earlier) on Wednesday.
Still too many vehicles around the exhibit halls during the middle of the day.
Someone needs to smack the PA announcer and tell him to not talk if he doesn't know something. Blimps are dirigibles. Semi-rigid airships are dirigibles.
Too many personal conveyances in the crowd areas.
Insufficient portapotties in the Vintage area (including keeping a good number of them locked up more all of the preshow).

UGLY:
New tram system is a disaster. None of the previous problems were addressed and it got worse:
1. Missing and inadequate signage.
2. Insufficient stops on the blue tram.
3. Yellow tram is silly short with too many stops.
Insurrection that happened in the parking lot exit lines necessitating Oshkosh police response.
Idiots who decided to pass other airplanes on the taxiway in the departure conga line for no apparent reasons.
Idiot pilots who drive their Cessna 310 through the crowd contrary to instructions/ marshalling to obtain a "perfect space" that nobody else was using.

[Mark17]

Hi Ron- Can you elaborate a little more on what exactly happened here? We didn’t go this year but wow! This sounds crazy! Why did this happen? Was it because EAA has shut down many of the parking lots and turned them into permit lots creating a shortage of public parking that’s actually close- Or was this a completely separate issue and had nothing to do with that? Whatever the reason this needs to be addressed.

“Insurrection that happened in the parking lot exit lines necessitating Oshkosh police response”.

[FlyingRon]

No, I don't think there were any substantive changes. Coming out of the close in lots (essentially between Scholler, the Main Gate, and Waukau road) you have to narrow down to one lane to exit. In the past, people were civil about merge. This year, they spent a lot of time fighting, blowing horns, and abusing the volunteer flaggers who tried to facilitate things. Finally, the volunteers decided they didn't feel safe anymore, and the Osh police came in. I came across the scene about thirty minutes later.

Unfortunately, be it COVID-related or anguish over alleged election injustices, many people in the public have dropped any pretense at being polite and reasonable.

[Kyle Boatright]

From my perspective in Homebuilt Camping.

- As always, a very well run event. The HBC volunteers do an incredible job.
- Had a couple of disappointing experiences with the food vendors. The Homebuilt Cafe served us two pieces of expensive pizza that were approximately the size of my hand. At that price, a full pizza would have been about $75. I understand event pricing, but c'mon... In addition, the Subway that used to be near the intersection of Homebuilts and Warbirds was gone. We really missed having a pseudo healthy option on that end of the field.
- The perimeter road on the W side of the field is very dusty. The solution is not to send someone down the road with a sweeper truck, throwing all of that dust into HBC.
- Is it possible to have a "silent" airshow? Maybe the Tuesday or Thursday show. No announcers. Just airplane noise.

[mazdaP5]

The silent airshow is down in south 40, lol.
Speaking of the airshow, if the dual airbox thing ever happened, I don't think I ever saw it. Or it was pulled off so well that I never noticed.

[Mark17]

Yea that’s too bad Ron. I think you’re right on the current political and Covid environment- common decency and overall respectful interactions seem to have gone by the wayside. Sad to see that carry over to Oshkosh. Hopefully next year things will be much better. We were sad to miss the show this year and are really looking forward to next year! Hopefully both Fifi and Doc will be there as well as the B-1, B-2 and B-52.

In all the years we’ve been coming to Oshkosh, the 1989 show with the Blackbird, 1990 with the F-117, 1992 with the Concorde and Glacier Girl freshly pulled from the ice, 2010 with the Collings Foundation F-4, 2016 with the Martin Mars and 2017 with Doc and Fifi and the AF Bombers have been my absolute favorite shows. 2019 the year of the Fighter was absolutely outstanding as well. Hoping to see the greats back and well represented in 2022! It would be absolutely tremendous to see Doc and Fifi, the B-1, B-2, B-52 as well as the Raptors and if the Blues wanted to make an appearance as well, that would be the absolute cherry on top! Love Oshkosh but let’s work together to ensure it stays the best show on the planet! EAA if you’re listening: BRING FIFI BACK to fly with Doc!

[Wickbuilder]

Tram service that was supposed to run late starting Monday never materialized. After working to close on the vintage flightline I was not happy having to walk to the North 40 again. If you are going to publish a schedule then run the Damn thing on schedule.
No Mask, No Uber...

[mazdaP5]

In all the years we’ve been coming to Oshkosh, the 1989 show with the Blackbird, 1990 with the F-117, 1992 with the Concorde and Glacier Girl freshly pulled from the ice, 2010 with the Collings Foundation F-4, 2016 with the Martin Mars and 2017 with Doc and Fifi and the AF Bombers have been my absolute favorite shows. 2019 the year of the Fighter was absolutely outstanding as well. Hoping to see the greats back and well represented in 2022! It would be absolutely tremendous to see Doc and Fifi, the B-1, B-2, B-52 as well as the Raptors and if the Blues wanted to make an appearance as well, that would be the absolute cherry on top! Love Oshkosh but let’s work together to ensure it stays the best show on the planet! EAA if you’re listening: BRING FIFI BACK to fly with Doc!

I've been coming since 81, and 2017 was an absolute banner year. The B-1 opening the Monday show, followed by the F-35, Fifi and Doc, the B-25 gathering, it was outstanding.

[Mark17]

Yea that was my favorite show for sure! It was just unbelievable and so cool!

[davevath]

What's with the airplane parking??? I had a friend show up on Wednesday and they taxied him down past hundred of open spaces all the way to the north 40 fence. Can't we use a spot twice?

[Airmutt]

Hey Ron, you probably should have noted that everything shutdown early on Wednesday due to the threat of severe weather. I was 30 miles NW and… the lightning was spectacular and scary at the same time. We got wind, my wx station clocked 52 mph. We got hail about quarter sized too but fortunately it wasn’t coupled with the wind. The really bad stuff didn’t hit us until around 2200.

On the traffic subject I was stunned to see what was the old Orange Lot sitting practically empty on mid-day Friday. Apparently the Warbirds were given a permit only section but there were less than 4 rows of “permit parking”. What a waste of valuable parking real estate.

Personally it seemed that the number of scooters, gators, golf carts and whatever was up. Rental scooter etiquette was nonexistent. Pedestrian awareness was pretty poor too.

[BeagleOne]

I wish I could attach a photo...a few years ago I saw four guys in their 20s each riding a rental motorized scooter. I know that not all disabilities are visible (mine aren't) and I know that young people can be disabled...bit four of them? All together? Way down the flightline? I don't hink so. I wonder if there is any legal way for EAA to rent scooters only to people who already have disabled permits. ADA is very restrictive in what can be asked, but it really annoys me to think that someone with a true disability might not be able to rent a scooter because some lazy person got there first.

[deftone]

Tram service that was supposed to run late starting Monday never materialized. After working to close on the vintage flightline I was not happy having to walk to the North 40 again. If you are going to publish a schedule then run the Damn thing on schedule.
No Mask, No Uber...

There was a lack of volunteers for the trams this year apparently causing them to need to end service earlier than planned. I know one tram driver I spoke to had been working for six hours already that day. Thats a heck of a shift for someone just volunteering.

[Md11pilot]

This was a somewhat good Airventure but had some mixed feelings about some things. My son and his family were not able to attend so I missed my grandkids. They had ONE request….bring us this years AeroShell “Cow Poster”, but AeroShell was a no show. No reason given and they were listed with a booth but it was empty. We always do the Aviators Club on Wednesday to sit for the night show which was canceled due to weather but couldn’t slide our Wednesday to Thursday. We always pick up “swag” which seemed scarce this year. I blame it on COVID as businesses were hurt from last year.
If I could sit down with the powers that be I would have a few requests/suggestions….
1. Stop all seminars and forums during the air shows….it’s hard to hear some of the speaking anyway but when the jets are flying it is impossible. Becomes a waste of time.
2. The App was useless due to a lack of internet and phone service.
3. Seminars and Forums don’t seem to match the advertising on the buildings. More than once I had to ask where a certain forum was and saw the same question from many others. Just some type of signage viewable from more than arms reach.

[Ronald Franck]

So much noise this year. You couldn't get away from it. The PA system's decible level was so high during the airshow and the announcer seemed to scream the entire time. We don't need the PA system to be blasting away 24/7. Silence is Golden.
The crowds seemed larger this year. My guess is that the heat, humidity, crowds size and noise levels stressed everyone to the breaking point that civility and courtesy went out the window, not becaue of covid or politics.

[CHICAGORANDY]

There was a lack of volunteers for the trams this year apparently causing them to need to end service earlier than planned. I know one tram driver I spoke to had been working for six hours already that day. Thats a heck of a shift for someone just volunteering.

I'm a tram conductor, we volunteer early in the year to work 6 hour shifts and get scheduled a few weeks before the event starts - either on the 8-2 or 2-8 shifts as tram management needs that day. While they DO seek to send out all the trams each day, it is indeed 100% volunteer staff dependent. Two volunteers per tram (driver and conductor), two shifts per day and at least one relief team of two for each color route. It's a LOT of bodies to keep the tram system operating every day. Now add in unplanned illness, absences, emergencies, mechanical breakdowns and the occasional volunteers that simply never show up and you can appreciate it can quickly become a logistical nightmare for our bosses, who are remarkable by the way.

I'm also one of those pesky wonky-kneed geezers who this year brought his own Chicago-rented mobility scooter. It was a godsend and allowed me to see everything I wanted to see, and go anywhere I wanted to go pain free and in a timely manner. I posted a couple quick pics in my "Day 5 of 9" commentary here - http://eaaforums.org/showthread.php?10053-Day-5-of-9 . I can also attest that I saw EVERY make/model of legit mobility scooter in use at AirVenture. There's a whole lot of us 'less than nimble' folks in EAA -lol. I also saw several that kinda 'stretched' the mobility scooter definition, but I'll leave deciding which is which to someone else.

I did also see young kids running golf carts like they were dune buggies, even a pair of 'yoots doing a power slide donut by Hangar B. NOT setting a good example IMHO.

[N3kf]

It was definitely good to be back and had a great time with my son. As expected!

I had a failed back surgery 10 years ago, so must use a mobility chair for the days at Oshkosh. My son was saying I forced him to average 10 Miles a day! I can walk some, but not all day. Anyway, to get from Scholler and back I need to use one of the special needs buses with the lifts. The wait times this year were really bad. 1/2 hour to 45 minutes late morning at Stitts and Lindberg. And typically an hour+ in the evening. And that's calling the dispatcher. The only two drivers I saw told me there was only one special needs bus in Scholler the whole week. There use to be three. The drivers said there were two others, but one went from the bus park to museum only, and I believe another did parking lots and maybe north 40 only? Previously the 3 in Scholler went where they were needed. For instance, I could be picked up and request to go to the museum and back. I do have the dispatchers number so call them when needed.

So EAA if you listen here, if this change was the result of the study done in 2019, it is not working well for those of us in Scholler. At least the few others I saw agree. You should change it back or at least put two buses in Scholler. Plus remember parents with strollers also use these buses. If it was the bus company that made the changes, they should talk with their drivers!!

Again not a huge complaint, but it did work much better in past years. Maybe rethink the changes?

Thanks. And Ron it's hard to believe you saw that stuff out of the parking lot.....

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[mazdaP5]

The good was very god: Airventure and the hospitality of the city and people of Oshkosh. The event ran very well for all of the rust from the year off.
I love EAA Radio in the mornings, as well as the broadcast of the theatre in the woods.
Night at the museum was very welcome, it could have gotten ugly if that storm hit.
My B-25 ride was priceless.
The bad: Weather was nasty, hot and humid. Long term forecasts lied!:rollseyes:
Lot's of flat tires on the runways, don't know what's up with that.

The ugly: a few DUI in the campgrounds, and that truck that ran off of the road down at the southwest corner.

[FlyingRon]

Hey Ron, you probably should have noted that everything shutdown early on Wednesday due to the threat of severe weather. I was 30 miles NW and… the lightning was spectacular and scary at the same time. We got wind, my wx station clocked 52 mph. We got hail about quarter sized too but fortunately it wasn’t coupled with the wind. The really bad stuff didn’t hit us until around 2200. .

It didn't even start raining until 2200. It was a beautiful evening as I walked from Vintage up to the SOS brothers for dinner and back.


And here's the true ugly thing (at least for me). Just got the word that one of our volunteers who worked with me in our operations building has tested positive for COVID. He had gotten his vaccinations in January. I got mine in March, but I'm heading out to get tested tomorrow. I've also got to pull up the volunteer data and find out who volunteered with him during the week. (It's a good thing we track that. We did it for other reasons but this is going to be important).

[skyfixer8]

As a tram driver, I got to work well past the 6 hour shift we normally drive because of the shortages at least once. As for the routes and stops, If someone had actually asked the people who operate the tram system what they would suggest instead of a bunch of coledge kids who had never been to Oshkosh before then maybe the stops on blue line would have been better. We were told that Vintage wanted the stop by Spencers and Subway eliminated because it caused problems there. Also, would be nice if roads crew would go around and fill pot holes and cracks.

[John Leidel]

I understood that they were very short on volunteers to drive the trams.

[steve]

Did anyone else enjoy the new Mineshaft restaurant west of the N40? Nice portions and even nicer prices. And the food was :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:. We had dinner there 5 of the 10 nights we camped in HBC.

[Mark17]

It didn't even start raining until 2200. It was a beautiful evening as I walked from Vintage up to the SOS brothers for dinner and back.


And here's the true ugly thing (at least for me). Just got the word that one of our volunteers who worked with me in our operations building has tested positive for COVID. He had gotten his vaccinations in January. I got mine in March, but I'm heading out to get tested tomorrow. I've also got to pull up the volunteer data and find out who volunteered with him during the week. (It's a good thing we track that. We did it for other reasons but this is going to be important).

This was my main worry with this years show. Please keep us posted Ron on how he’s doing and if any others come down as positive for Covid as well. I know I speak for all of us in saying we’re all pulling for him and wish him a speedy recovery! Thanks for sharing and we’ll keep him in our thoughts.

[catesby]

I did not volunteer, and hate to critique work done by others. However, I do have a bone to pick as to the tram "rules." On one occasion, we rode the tram to the last vintage stop, and were told that we had to disembark because others were waiting to board. That's fair enough, but the very next tram permitted a round trip on the part of its riders despite a lengthy line waiting to board. A little consistency would have been helpful. I also missed the cow shirts, which I have in the past purchased in quantity as the "price" for my family letting me attend. Otherwise -- we were there for a week, and my first show was in the mid 1980's - and my nits are a small price to pay for it resuming this year. We had a terrific time.

[tnathan]

Hello,

I couldn’t help but add my thoughts. Not sure anyone that matters reads this but wanted to ad my observations. First let me say, this is largely run by volunteers and I am on vacation. So, we should keep that in mind. Many of those volunteers are “working” their vacation. I am grateful and can’t believe how out of nothing an aviation city pops up with grocery stores, a newspaper, a radio station, trams etc. it’s pretty amazing and I am grateful to all the volunteers. So, with that being said . . . Here are some of the things I think could use some attention.

1. Cellular bandwidth: Maybe there is an argument that I should unplug from the internet during airventure, but I don’t. Things seemed slightly better this year but the network was often overwhelmed for me. What’s the point of the airventure app if it just spins and times out? Or, they talked about stretching the show down the flight line. For me I sit at vintage but tried streaming the air show to see what goes on at show center. Often the video would just time out and buffer. WiFi bandwidth is better than it had been but it still has a way to go in my opinion. Not sure why Verizon and att can’t scale with mobile hotspots better. The more data that flows the more they make.

2. Eaa media: eaa radio and live video seemed to have a lot less content this year. Amy swoboda (sp?) wasn’t there. I wish they would ramp up these offerings. I would frankly pay for a digital airventure ticket if they offered more content and more production. For instance, my kids want to stand in line for an hour to walk through the ups plane. It would be nice if I could stream a forum or something. And if I could stream things going on elsewhere I wouldn’t have to stand around taking multiple trams to get there. Secondly it would be nice if the content could be on demand. Theater in the woods was 6-9, which is when I need to feed the kids. It would be nice if I could log in after they go to bed and see the presentation. They had a link purportedly for the “forums” but it never had content when I checked. I think there is a missed revenue opportunity here.

3. Trams. They are nice to have. I do agree the rules seemed to differ based on your driver, but it’s run by volunteeers. I just take it in stride. Two things I didn’t get was why the yellow route was like 100 yards long and had like me stop. Secondly, why did vintage lose a stop. The blue route now stops at the vendor hangers and doesn’t stop again until the machine shed. The red bar should have a stop in my opinion.

4. Comfort. I wish they had some more comfort for attendees. You can pay like 2k to be in the aviators club, which I assume is gobbled up by the vendors for corporate hospitality or there is general admission. I wish there was something in between. I don’t need to spend 2k per person to eat lobster and hang out with rob reider, but I would like some ac and a place to hide if the weather is bad.

5. Parking does seem to be getting worse. The event is gathering record crowds but the public seems to be getting pushed further away while handing out all access vip parking passes to vendors who walk out to the field at 9 stand at their booth all day and clock out at 5. Why do they need to be close? Seems backwards to me. I get the economics, but wish they wouldn’t make it so tough on families trying to move chairs, coolers, kids, etc. I have to go back and forth getting stuff all day. I don’t know the answer but think they should put some thought into some sort of transportation from the parking lots to the field.


Just my 0.02 worth.


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[SteveCostello]

5. Parking does seem to be getting worse.


Same sort of thing is happening in Scholler. You either need to claim your spot in the first two weeks of July (impractical unless you live nearby) or buy an improved site at $70 a night from the second you register. Either way, it's $$$. The expanded improved sites have pushed general camping pretty far south. I got there on Thursday evening before the show. In years past, that would have put me pretty close to Elm/Lindbergh. I was at 24th and Cedar. And that was for Thursday... Lord help the folks that show up Sunday... they were out near the water/sewer station!

But... the improved sites sold out about a week and a half before the show. General spots remotely close to the show were gobbled up and paid for around the same time. As long as the market supports it, that will continue to happen.

I *am* thankful that the 24 hour generator sites were moved out near 41. THANK YOU.

[FlyingRon]

This was my main worry with this years show. Please keep us posted Ron on how he’s doing and if any others come down as positive for Covid as well. I know I speak for all of us in saying we’re all pulling for him and wish him a speedy recovery! Thanks for sharing and we’ll keep him in our thoughts.

He seems to be doing well. I had a rapid antigen test today and came back negative and I probably spent more time in that office than anybody. Many of the others who worked at the same time have reported negative tests.
I've got a PCR test result pending as I'm scheduled to visit elderly relatives this weekend.

[FlyingRon]

We've lost lots of parking space over the years. Originally the flight light parking went all the way out to the Papa taxiway. After a DC-3 groundlooped into the ditch in the mid-90's, the FAA mandated the crowd line moved back substantially. Then a few years back in order to increase airport "security" an eight foot fence was erected around the property with an associated interior road that wiped more space. The EAA also has expanded the food offerings (not a bad thing) and added some more camp stores, etc... which ate in to aircraft spaces as well. On the other hand, more land has been turned over (the new "South 40" what we in Vintage had been calling Green Acres) and if they ever get all the heirs to the property across the road on board, some more space will be freed up down south.

[Airmutt]

EAA has purchased land south of the UL area on both sides of Knapp. Demolition of the existing buildings has occurred and the land prep is in work but it’s all part of a multi year project. Building a new building for the ULs came in cheaper than moving the UL Red Barn. I think it’s great that EAA is willing to invest in the UL and Light Sport community. Unfortunately it’s gonna make the hike down to that area very looong!!! I’m assuming that vintage guys will inherit the area once the jump is made. Actually the DC-3 attempted to takeoff without the tail wheel locked. Does that qualify as a ground loop or just loss of directional control? :eek:

[RBaptist]

I for one had a blast this year. 5th year at Airventure and first year to volunteer. Was able to snag a spot on the Flight Line Ops team and man I had a blast and learned a lot about what goes on behind the scenes to keep things moving. Volunteers were in short supply in many areas it seems but everyone seemed to keep things in stride and it worked out well. Only complaint (probably not a lot that can be done about it) is that Camp Scholler filled up FAAAAAST this year. Got there Sunday at 3P and was a long way out! Busses and trams were there, but confusing - the maps were color coded, but the Busses and Trams didn't have corresponding colors to match the maps (unless I missed it).

Maybe something to consider next year - If the Bus is following the YELLOW route - Put a Sign that says 'YELLOW'. I got on a bus to 'Scholler' and they dropped us off at the Bus park... lol.

Love Love Love Airventure though - great job as always EAA!

[Airmutt]

12,000+ units registered. Would be interested to see the breakdown of tents vs RVs/trailers.

[Bill Berson]

The color of the tram is designated by a tiny flag on the rear that you might only notice after it passes by.

[tnathan]

EAA has purchased land south of the UL area on both sides of Knapp. Demolition of the existing buildings has occurred and the land prep is in work but it’s all part of a multi year project. Building a new building for the ULs came in cheaper than moving the UL Red Barn. I think it’s great that EAA is willing to invest in the UL and Light Sport community. Unfortunately it’s gonna make the hike down to that area very looong!!! I’m assuming that vintage guys will inherit the area once the jump is made. Actually the DC-3 attempted to takeoff without the tail wheel locked. Does that qualify as a ground loop or just loss of directional control? :eek:

I think that’s a good point too. I a surprised in the investment eaa makes for an event that is fOr 1 week only. Lots of land and buildings that get used for 7 days,


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[tnathan]

I for one had a blast this year. 5th year at Airventure and first year to volunteer. Was able to snag a spot on the Flight Line Ops team and man I had a blast and learned a lot about what goes on behind the scenes to keep things moving. Volunteers were in short supply in many areas it seems but everyone seemed to keep things in stride and it worked out well. Only complaint (probably not a lot that can be done about it) is that Camp Scholler filled up FAAAAAST this year. Got there Sunday at 3P and was a long way out! Busses and trams were there, but confusing - the maps were color coded, but the Busses and Trams didn't have corresponding colors to match the maps (unless I missed it).

Maybe something to consider next year - If the Bus is following the YELLOW route - Put a Sign that says 'YELLOW'. I got on a bus to 'Scholler' and they dropped us off at the Bus park... lol.

Love Love Love Airventure though - great job as always EAA!

Not high on my personal lists of issues. But must of the awnings had blue trim but you had to look for the little flag to figure out if it was the red, blue, or yellow route.


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[Mark17]

He seems to be doing well. I had a rapid antigen test today and came back negative and I probably spent more time in that office than anybody. Many of the others who worked at the same time have reported negative tests.
I've got a PCR test result pending as I'm scheduled to visit elderly relatives this weekend.

That’s great news Ron! Happy to hear that you and the others have come back negative as well! Keep us posted on any new developments but that’s so great to hear for now anyway! You guys do such a great job putting this event on every year and put in so much of your personal time and effort to do so. So thank you so much- It’s greatly appreciated by all who attend Oshkosh!

[CHICAGORANDY]

"The color of the tram is designated by a tiny flag on the rear that you might only notice after it passes by"

There is also a colored pennant on the tractor to indicate which route. Both the front and rear pennants are mounted on long wooden dowels so that any tram can easily and quickly be put into service on any route as the need arises.

For all practical purposes there are only three 'main' routes - Red to the North, Yellow in the middle, and Blue to the South. While on the route a tram is pretty much always going in the direction the tractor is facing (easier on the tires that way) so there really can't be all that much confusion. And at the two main terminals Blue-Yellow and Red-Yellow there is almost always tram staff available to assist the lost, plus that conductor at the rear DOES have a microphone to annnounce such info as needed.

[Ronald Franck]

I don't want to start a new thread for just one topic so I'll post this here under the "Good, Bad and Ugly" banner.
Friday evening after the airshow I was headed northbound on 41 from 26, (southwest of the convention grounds).
In the sky over 41 were two powered parachutes crusing directly over the median of the highway at less than 500 feet.
I didn't think traffic from the Fun Fly Zone were permitted that far west of the field. Correct me if I'm wrong.
In any case, if there had been a mishap it would have reflected poorly on the aviation community. When it comes to public relations we need to avoid stunts like this.
OK, that's my rant. back to work.

[skyfixer8]

The color of the tram is designated by a tiny flag on the rear that you might only notice after it passes by.

There is also a flag on the front of the tractor

[tnathan]

"The color of the tram is designated by a tiny flag on the rear that you might only notice after it passes by"

There is also a colored pennant on the tractor to indicate which route. Both the front and rear pennants are mounted on long wooden dowels so that any tram can easily and quickly be put into service on any route as the need arises.

For all practical purposes there are only three 'main' routes - Red to the North, Yellow in the middle, and Blue to the South. While on the route a tram is pretty much always going in the direction the tractor is facing (easier on the tires that way) so there really can't be all that much confusion. And at the two main terminals Blue-Yellow and Red-Yellow there is almost always tram staff available to assist the lost, plus that conductor at the rear DOES have a microphone to annnounce such info as needed.

That true too. There really isn’t much overlap. And for seasoned folks it’s hard to screw up based on where they park etc. I know where it’s going. And the volunteers are super at offering help. But I could, and did see, newbies get confused at the terminals. Is the blue tram the one with the blue awning and little almost unnoticeable yellow flag or the blue awning and the little almost unnoticeable blue flag? Not the biggest issue facing eaa. But a bigger sign seems like a simple fix.


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[FlyingMN]

The good: Good for me at least was the Viper Demo teams last high speed pass during the Thursday day air show. I have never experienced an aircraft breaking the sound barrier so I am no expert but pretty sure it happened on the very north end. I would love to hear opinions from anybody who experienced it or knows more details on it. I was right on the flight line north of the forum buildings and the Vans booth. First sound we heard was a double boom that was like two lightning strikes right next to us. The compression was like somebody punched you left right in the chest. I heard reports it took some people off their feet. This probably falls in the bad or ugly category for some others. Hope the pilot didnt get in too much trouble. It certainly is the highlight of my nearly decade of attending.

Not really a bad as we arrived to camp Tuesday so that has got to be the worst possible time to show up. As expected we were in the far SW corner and there wasnt much room left either.

The Ugly: post Airventure depression. Another year and I still dont own an airplane darn it. Next year.

[tnathan]

The good: Good for me at least was the Viper Demo teams last high speed pass during the Thursday day air show. I have never experienced an aircraft breaking the sound barrier so I am no expert but pretty sure it happened on the very north end. I would love to hear opinions from anybody who experienced it or knows more details on it. I was right on the flight line north of the forum buildings and the Vans booth. First sound we heard was a double boom that was like two lightning strikes right next to us. The compression was like somebody punched you left right in the chest. I heard reports it took some people off their feet. This probably falls in the bad or ugly category for some others. Hope the pilot didnt get in too much trouble. It certainly is the highlight of my nearly decade of attending.

Not really a bad as we arrived to camp Tuesday so that has got to be the worst possible time to show up. As expected we were in the far SW corner and there wasnt much room left either.

The Ugly: post Airventure depression. Another year and I still dont own an airplane darn it. Next year.

I am no expert but others have said he didn’t break the sound barrier but came right up to the edge. I was told a real sonic boom is unmistakable and would have broken windows, etc.

Since it is illegal over land, I am sure it would have made national news if he did. And for all of us airplane nuts, I am sure we all agree we didn’t hear anything, right?


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[ssteve1]

Careful what you post here. Be very very careful.

[Airmutt]

“Since it is illegal over land, I am sure it would have made national news if he did.”

Y’all should have been here last summer. The WI NG conducted a multi service air combat exercise and being under the Volks MOA we experienced several sonic booms during the week. It was also very cool to look up and see the interweaving contrails…… shades of Battle of Britain. FYI no broken windows.

[FlyingRon]

"plus that conductor at the rear DOES have a microphone to annnounce such info as needed.
I thought it was just so he could tell bad jokes.

[steve]

Careful what you post here. Be very very careful.
And on every other site you visit.

[robert l]

I am no expert but others have said he didn’t break the sound barrier but came right up to the edge. I was told a real sonic boom is unmistakable and would have broken windows, etc.

Since it is illegal over land, I am sure it would have made national news if he did. And for all of us airplane nuts, I am sure we all agree we didn’t hear anything, right?

When I was a kid, 10 years old in 1956, we heard sonic booms quite a lot in S.C. I don't remember any broken windows, but it would sure rattle them !!!
Bob

[krw920]

I am no expert but others have said he didn’t break the sound barrier but came right up to the edge. I was told a real sonic boom is unmistakable and would have broken windows, etc.

Since it is illegal over land, I am sure it would have made national news if he did. And for all of us airplane nuts, I am sure we all agree we didn’t hear anything, right?

When I was a kid, 10 years old in 1956, we heard sonic booms quite a lot in S.C. I don't remember any broken windows, but it would sure rattle them !!!
Bob

And the jets were probably at 20k feet or more, not at 500'.

[tnathan]

And the jets were probably at 20k feet or more, not at 500'.

I don’t know if this is true or not, but the guy I was standing next to on the flight line said that you can tell if they break the sound barrier when the visible compression ring slips back behind the airplane. You could see the compression cloud on the leading surfaces but I never saw the cone slide behind the airplane like you see in some photos. FWIW.


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[MEdwards]

Surprised I haven’t seen comments on the new approach procedures this year.

I thought they worked quite well. I was a victim of the huge confusion of, I think, 2018, and it seemed this year they handled a large crowd at the busiest times pretty well, and much more safely. With multiple defined holds, and apparently one additional improvised one at the town of Portage, they spread out the traffic and metered it well. The controllers at Fisk had to work harder, but it sounded like they had lots of help, including controllers watching ADS-B and even calling out people by N number who were (for whatever reason) bypassing the procedure.

I had hoped 2018 was an aberration and things would return to the normal of the last 2-3 decades. But no, I suspect we’ve seen the last of “find somebody to follow and join the line at Ripon.”

[Kyle Boatright]

Surprised I haven’t seen comments on the new approach procedures this year.

I thought they worked quite well. I was a victim of the huge confusion of, I think, 2018, and it seemed this year they handled a large crowd at the busiest times pretty well, and much more safely. With multiple defined holds, and apparently one additional improvised one at the town of Portage, they spread out the traffic and metered it well. The controllers at Fisk had to work harder, but it sounded like they had lots of help, including controllers watching ADS-B and even calling out people by N number who were (for whatever reason) bypassing the procedure.

I had hoped 2018 was an aberration and things would return to the normal of the last 2-3 decades. But no, I suspect we’ve seen the last of “find somebody to follow and join the line at Ripon.”

It'll be interesting to see if the new procedures actually help when the weather or other outside influences cause problems. Best I could tell, this year there were no weather events or runway closures that severely restricted or bunched up arrivals.

[Aviatrexx]

As for the routes and stops, if someone had actually asked the people who operate the tram system what they would suggest instead of a bunch of college kids who had never been to Oshkosh before then maybe the stops on blue line would have been better. We were told that Vintage wanted the stop by Spencers and Subway eliminated because it caused problems there.

At the Vintage town hall meeting I asked the president of Vintage if there had been any consultation between Trams and Vintage. Her reply was a succinct, "NO".

Given the number of attendees and Vintage Flightline volunteers that need to get to the Vintage Hangar and Red Barn every day, there is no way in hell that anyone in Vintage would have requested that the tram stop be removed. If this year's Tram route was the result of the UW analysis, apparently no one thought to consult the stakeholders before implementing it.

[Airmutt]

“apparently no one thought to consult the stakeholders before implementing it.”
Ya think! :(

[Kyle Boatright]

“apparently no one thought to consult the stakeholders before implementing it.”
Ya think! :(

I would offer "At least they tried." Seriously. The good thing is it ain't locked in for perpetuity.

[tnathan]

Ya but it is a little bit of a head scratcher how someone concluded: Vintage, they don’t need a stop and the yellow line should be like 50 feet long, the blue line is like a mile out to southern end of the airport and the red line is like a mile to the north 40. It was better as it was in my opinion.


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[steve]

Surprised I haven’t seen comments on the new approach procedures this year.

My flight of three RVs flew in from Utah and all the new Visual Points are along our last leg from Fairmont MN to Ripon so we didn't have to fly 50 miles out of our way to get to the first new point. In fact, we probably overflew those points in prior years. (ATIS did say the Green Lake arrival was currently in effect.) We arrived on the Thursday before opening day and traffic was extremely light so I kept the flight at cruise speed until we neared Ripon. The Fisk controller was very welcoming and asked which runway I preferred.
After the handoff to Tower, I got the request to rock wings, we landed on rwy 27 in short order. Tower welcomed us to Oshkosh, asked where we were parking, and had us exit the runway to the left after telling us the grass was rolled smooth.
A ground control scooter rolled up with a sign telling us to monitor ground on xxx.yy. I did so and heard nor saw another controller so I nav'd us to taxiway P where we were picked up by a another scooter and then on to HBC for the next 10 days.