Icon A5 Request For Weight Increase Exemption Status

[Flyfalcons]

That is dissappointing that you can't have BOTH retractable gear and electric folding wings. They have 170lbs of headroom - why not use it.... :-D

Would probably bump up on the max stall speed thing.

[Floatsflyer]

Nice! Welcome back. I was really bummed that I couldn't make it out there this year.

I heard it was unseasonably cool so that must have been a nice change from the usual heat.

What did you think of the 3D CAD treatment to the show plane?

That is dissappointing that you can't have BOTH retractable gear and electric folding wings. They have 170lbs of headroom - why not use it.... :-D

Did they have an updated mock up of the cockpit with the new AoA gauge incorporated into it?

The weather was the best in years. Rain threatened one day for about an hour but it blew over with strong winds and no rainfall. None of the hot humid 110 degree days of the past. Just pleasant sunny or cloud cover days. I actually did something I've never done--wear a jacket for Weds. night airshow, it got a little cool at night. That night airshow was the best one by far since they started 2 years ago.

The all black CAD Icon looked good but they had it all blocked off with rope so couldn't see inside the cockpit. There were a few exhibitors showing AoA's for the first time and they all worked well but IMO, Icon's is the most intuitive.

I don't think you'll see the additional allowable 170 lbs used any time soon in a general across the board manner. Because of the long wait for the decision, I was told that Icon had to finalize the weight some time ago so they could move forward with further development. That weight is 1510 lbs. I will tell you this though: When I mentioned that I'm no longer interested in an A5 without power wing fold, I was strongly advised to email the VP, Sales and that "something" could be worked out. So, there must be others who have the same complaint and that "something" to me could only mean a custom built aircraft for those that want retracts and power wingfold.

[Floatsflyer]

I also happened to talk several ICON's board members at EAA last Tuesday, looks like they are all excited. Maybe I can help you to get a test flight next summer once its production plane available

Do you have some sort of in or pull wth the BOD's? If you could actually help to arrange that, I'm all in. I did demo a SeaRey at the seaplane base and that was a fantastic experience. The SeaRey is a superior flying boat.

[Eaglerhythm]

Do you have some sort of in or pull wth the BOD's? If you could actually help to arrange that, I'm all in. I did demo a SeaRey at the seaplane base and that was a fantastic experience. The SeaRey is a superior flying boat.

You bet, next year some time, they should treat you well since you have been such big a supporter.

[kmhd1]

The weather was the best in years. Rain threatened one day for about an hour but it blew over with strong winds and no rainfall. None of the hot humid 110 degree days of the past. Just pleasant sunny or cloud cover days. I actually did something I've never done--wear a jacket for Weds. night airshow, it got a little cool at night. That night airshow was the best one by far since they started 2 years ago.

The all black CAD Icon looked good but they had it all blocked off with rope so couldn't see inside the cockpit. There were a few exhibitors showing AoA's for the first time and they all worked well but IMO, Icon's is the most intuitive.

I don't think you'll see the additional allowable 170 lbs used any time soon in a general across the board manner. Because of the long wait for the decision, I was told that Icon had to finalize the weight some time ago so they could move forward with further development. That weight is 1510 lbs. I will tell you this though: When I mentioned that I'm no longer interested in an A5 without power wing fold, I was strongly advised to email the VP, Sales and that "something" could be worked out. So, there must be others who have the same complaint and that "something" to me could only mean a custom built aircraft for those that want retracts and power wingfold.

Very interesting, Floatsflyer, and thanks for the reply. Not sure where you live but there are probably enough A5 supporters here to start a flying club. Would make the A5 down right affordable!

If it were to be a custom build to have both options on the A5, would it still be certified as an S-LSA in that scenario?

[kmhd1]

Do you have some sort of in or pull wth the BOD's? If you could actually help to arrange that, I'm all in. I did demo a SeaRey at the seaplane base and that was a fantastic experience. The SeaRey is a superior flying boat.

I have heard quite a few good reports on the SeaRey. The flight school at my home airport is also a dealer for the SeaRey. It's certainly quite a bit cheaper than an A5....

[kmhd1]

One other question for you Floatsflyer:

Did you happen to poke them for a bit more information on what they meant by the "tough decisions" they had to make which led them to the current 1,510lbs? The press release mentioned the following:

“We had to make some tough engineering decisions in order to keep the program moving forward given the FAA delay,” said ICON VP of Engineering, Matthew Gionta...

My question is what options were given up or what compromises were made to get to the 1,510 especially when they were starting with a possible and eventually approved weight of 1,680.

[kmhd1]

Icon posted some additional photos from their Oshkosh setup on their Facebook page. Here's a shot of their production version for the main instrument cluster:

MAIN INSTRUMENT CLUSTER
The A5’s interior is designed to provide the best possible user experience, and the instrument cluster is a central part of that. Optimized around VFR (Visual Flight Rules) flying, the cluster conveys a clear hierarchy of function with the most important information concentrated directly in front of the pilot. At the top of the cluster and closest to the pilot’s line of sight is the Angle of Attack (AoA) gauge, which provies a realtime picture of how the wing is flying. Its intuitive design immediately conveys how close the wing is to stalling, regardless of airspeed, weight, or maneuvering G’s. A sophisticated electrical circuit converts pressure readings into AoA indicator bands on the gauge, which is highlighted here.

[Bill Berson]

Every fatal stall/spin crash that killed pilots I have personally known (at least four cases) occurred at full throttle. But the FAA did not even discuss the full power departure stall/spin subject.
In fact, FAR 23.201 (e) (ii) allows spin resistance testing with just 50 percent power.

In other words, the FAA spin resistance standard may not protect pilots that stall with full power, as most do, in my experience.

At the Icon booth I asked the spokesperson: "Was the spin resistance test at full power or 50 percent power"
No direct answer was provided. He said: " I don't have time or interest to read FAR 23 details"

So, I am still wondering if Icon (or any aircraft) has ever demonstrated spin resistance at full throttle. Without further information to the contrary, I assume spin resistance at full throttle is likely not possible.

[martymayes]

My question is what options were given up or what compromises were made to get to the 1,510 especially when they were starting with a possible and eventually approved weight of 1,680.

I find the latter most interesting. The FAA has basically given the green light for an LSA to have a gross wt of 1680 lbs, which is more than a Cessna 152. A Cessna 152 can't be operated as an LSA because they are too heavy.