Fly Baby Made of aluminum like a Aerodrome WW-1 Replica?

[robert l]

RonK,
And I am 6'2" and was about 225 lbs at the time
PS...That Aerodrome EIII Fokker looks like the one to get, and the price is probably better than if made one from scratch. I'll check into it. It seems like the manufacturer stands by his product after reading Frank G's build vlog.

I tried a 3/4 Eiendecker on for size a few years ago and there is a (I think) rear spar tube carry through just behind the seat. It was somewhat uncomfortable and the cock pit was a little tight. I'm 6 ft and 200 lbs. but I really like the E III. At 6' 2" it might be a little tight for you also. But, you may bot be as old and stiff as I am !!!
Bob

[RonK]

If Mama happy, everybody happy. If Mama ain't happy, ain't NObody happy.

That's all the advice I have for you, buddy.

I hear you.

[RonK]

Call up the PB100 Companion Guide for the first Fly Baby construction article, and go to page 40 ("Non-Cable Internal Bracing"):

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/PB100/Guide_1.pdf

There I discuss some alternate methods, and the advantages and drawbacks of each. It's aimed towards Fly Baby builders, but the same advice carries to other designs. As Frank mentioned, the alternates using solid tubes have an issue with trammelling (getting the orientation exactly right).



Dingdingdingdingding.... winner!

Pete didn't so much "engineer" the Fly Baby as he worked in details of successful aircraft of the sort of configuration he was planning. To quote Pete in EAA SPORT AVIATION (December 1962):

The wood construction was retained for simplicity and low cost and the aerodynamic layout was based on the two Story "Specials" then operating in Seattle in order to match their flying qualities, which were very definitely superior to others in the area.

The Storys were thoroughly conservative and conventional airplanes with a distinguished pedigree. Their immediate predecessor was George Beaugardus' "Little Gee Bee", which Tom Story of Portland, Oreg., had built just before World War II as a development of Les Long's famous Longster "Wimpy".

Note that the Fly Baby has engendered at least one ultralight "clone": The Ultrababy. It's a 75% scale Fly Baby designed for a half-VW.


It's all wood, though...not what you're looking for. Converting an existing design to an all-new material is not easy.

Here's something similar: I got into electronics as a teenager. This was in early in the "solid state" era, when transistors were replacing vacuum tubes. I did a lot of fiddling with them.

A friend came to me one day, with a small table-type radio. He wanted me to unplug the vacuum tubes and plug in transistors, instead, so he could make it portable. It was difficult to explain, in terms he'd understand, why that just couldn't be done.

You sometimes see the same thing in homebuilt aircraft. People think they can take a 3/4" square spruce longeron and replace it with a 3/4" aluminum tube. But even if the strength is the same, the method used to attach components to each other is entirely different. And the interfaces are the key.

You mentioned extensive ground testing, and that's good. However, keep in mind that the testing should be of the aircraft, not just the wings. Keeping the wings on my Fly Baby depends on the bracing cables, turnbuckles, steel-tube compression struts, 1/8" steel anchors for the bracing wires, the wing spars, the 1/8" steel plates that attach the wings to fuselage bulkheads of stations 3 and 5 (which consist of spruce and plywood components of various sizes, the landing gear legs, and the main gear wheel axle.

About 40 years ago, the first Fly Baby in Finland underwent full Part 23 load testing (they didn't have an Experimental category in Finland). Here's how they did the positive G loading (from an English translation of the test report):

So the testing isn't all that simple. (If, for some reason, you want to read the whole report: http://www.bowersflybaby.com/safety/...oad_Report.pdf)

I don't want to discourage you from designing your own airplane...after all, that's what EAA is all about. But if you're just looking for a plane to fly that fits your budget (like 99% of EAA homebuilt fans) you'd be better off with something off the shelf. The Aerodrome Eindekker sounds pretty good.

Ron "How about a nice game of chess" Wanttaja

I happen to have the Plans for the Ultralight Fly Baby. The only problem is wood is getting pretty expensive these days. I don't mind wood, but seeing the way Aerodrome planes are made that would be the way to go.
My test would be along the lines that you posted, Thank You.

RonK

[RonK]

On Airdrome airfoils, Robert likes the Cub/Champ airfoils, as they are very pilot friendly.

This is usually one of the first things folks change, going to a more historically accurate thinner one. I went with what he suggested.

When Robert says that a first time builder can make one of his planes in the space of a single car garage using simple household tools, he isn't lying. I cheated by getting an air powered rivet gun - no way I was going to put all of those in by hand!

I would also strongly suggest spending a couple days in Holden, MO, at his shop for a builder's assist. If one hasn't ever done this sort of work it's school where one gets to take home and use the product!

A couple words about Robert Baslee's builder assist:

1) It can be pricey (for me, anyhow). He's upfront about his rate, which is daily. However, it is totally worth it.

2) It is builder assist. The work pace is entirely on the builder. Want to stand around talking theory instead of slinging rivets? Fine by Robert. He'll gently remind one why they are there and point out the things that need done, but if you ain't working, they ain't working. Don't worry - you will never work faster than they can. His builder's assist is affectionately known as the House of Pain. If one is over their head, they'll go into school mode and demonstrate. But a lot can get done in short order when at the master's knee. Heck, my Nieuport was fuselage, tail feathers, and on gear done in four days with just me, him, and his helper Jim.

3) One is paying for his time and shop time. It's not by person. Bring a decent helper! Or, as I know has happened, bring a whole team of experienced builders and pretty much complete an aircraft in five days.

4) While safety is King in his shop, there are some OSHA cringe worthy things that happen in every build. I doubt he'll turn someone away for wearing flip-flops into his shop, but think ahead. He'll point out safety glasses and gloves for one to use, but since the waiver is thick, doesn't gripe too much about it. Then again, working with aluminum tubes, gussets, and pop rivets pretty low threat.

I would get an air rivet gun too. But I won't be going to the builder assist, I live in Arizona.

[RonK]

Oh, I thought you were talking about a replica of a (Langley) Aerodrome. I'm not sure I want to fly one of those.

Yea it didn't get very far off the launch ramp.

[RonK]

Buy the "ruder" kit. If one can make the rudder, one can make the entire aircraft, as all the skills and techniques are distilled into that one piece.

Do me a favor if you do order it - when Robert asks where you found out, mention the EAA forums and the good folks here.

I may get the rudder kit soon, I almost have my wife convinced to let me get started. And I will mention you all at the EAA.

[RonK]

RonK,
And I am 6'2" and was about 225 lbs at the time
PS...That Aerodrome EIII Fokker looks like the one to get, and the price is probably better than if made one from scratch. I'll check into it. It seems like the manufacturer stands by his product after reading Frank G's build vlog.

I tried a 3/4 Eiendecker on for size a few years ago and there is a (I think) rear spar tube carry through just behind the seat. It was somewhat uncomfortable and the cock pit was a little tight. I'm 6 ft and 200 lbs. but I really like the E III. At 6' 2" it might be a little tight for you also. But, you may bot be as old and stiff as I am !!!
Bob

I'm 62, I'm not stiff but getting there. I plan on getting down to 185 to 190 lbs. I'm 227 lbs right now. I was 234 a week ago.
I'll ask Robert about the size issue before I get the rudder kit.



Thank You for the heads up,

RonK

[robert l]

I'm 62, I'm not stiff but getting there. I plan on getting down to 185 to 190 lbs. I'm 227 lbs right now. I was 234 a week ago.
I'll ask Robert about the size issue before I get the rudder kit.



Thank You for the heads up,

RonK

You're welcome, and please let me know what Robert says. I really like the E III. I think I would like to have a full VW or the Verner radial.
Bob

[RonK]

You're welcome, and please let me know what Robert says. I really like the E III. I think I would like to have a full VW or the Verner radial.
Bob

That would be a screamer with either of those!

I'll tell you what Robert says, I may call him sometime this week. His phone is probably off for the Holiday today.

[RonK]

I may have to change the title to go with the Aerodrome EIII subject...LOL