Originally Posted by 1600vw
So you agree that a condition inspection can not be "signed off" with discrepancies?
So you agree that a condition inspection can not be "signed off" with discrepancies?
My personal experience is that I open up the airplane and do the routine maintenance stuff and fix the stuff I find before the A&P arrives. He gets there, goes through the airplane, says, "Fix this and this and this" and goes away.
I fix the items and give him a call. He comes out, checks my work, then puts sticker in the logbooks with the "condition for safe operation" wording and signs it. I then give him pieces of green paper.
This is often done in a day, or might take ~2 weeks or more depending on what was found.
Ron Wanttaja
And 91.403(b)also requires all aircraft maintenance be performed as prescribed under applicable regulations including Part 43.
Do the operating limitations prescribe maintenance rules or just the inspection?
An IA does the inspection but may or may not do any of the repairs. The repairs can be done by any qualified person. The reason for discrepancies list is so that the owner can choose any and all of the specialists needed to complete the repairs.
In the case of E/AB, the owner can choose anyone or himself for every repair, not just the list of preventive maintenance.
My original question was : what if you decided the fabric repair was too much trouble and you decide to simply sell as is?
I believe an FAA attorney might say you are required to transfer a list of discrepancies to the buyer.
No IA needed.
Yeh, my discussion with Dana was referring to Type certificated aircraft in that comment.
For E/AB, an A&P or owner with Repairman can perform the 12 month inspection.
But the inspection is separate from repairs and lubrication. The person who signs the record for the 12 month inspection is NOT required to be the person that completes the repairs or service.
In the case of E/AB, anyone can do the repairs (major or minor) without supervision or any inspection of the completed work (as I see it). This is unique to E/AB.
A major change might require an inspection from the FAA or DAR. But a major repair is not a major change.
I am still sifting through the rules today.
I believe it all starts with FAR Part 91 which details flight and maintenance and inspection rules for airplanes*.
I am now trying to find the regulation that requires an E/AB owner to retain and hold the Operating Limitations.
I think the Operating Limitations must be linked with the Airworthiness Certificate somehow, but what is the regulation?
I don't think FAA Orders are regulations, but this is where I am a bit unclear.
*ultralights are "vehicles", not airplanes, so ultralights are exempt from Part 91
Last edited by Bill Berson; 10-19-2014 at 02:38 PM.
I think y'all are typing past each other!
Let's say that I have an A&P look over my aircraft, and he spots that the throttle cable is seriously binding or frayed. At that point he says "whoa, that's an unsafe condition" and if I've handed him my log books writes that he did the inspection and found it as a descrepency. He doesn't write it's in a safe condition to operate.
Why would he write anything in the log book? Because he's trained to write in log books any time he does an inspection. Chances are that the vast majority of the time he deals with type certified aircraft and that's where his mind is!
Anyhow, so I replace the throttle cable and bring it back to him.
Naturally he doesn't go back to square one and start the whole inspection over (assuming the repair is done in a timely manner); he notes it was repaired, and assuming that was the only gig that would cause it to be unsafe in his opinion, then puts down the Magic Words.
The inspection date for the twelve month clock would be, if I understand things right, when he signs off on it as in safe condition, not when he did the initial inspection.
The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.
The difference is the mechanic assumes some liability for your throttle cable installation.
If you did it wrong and he didn't find the flaw, he could be held responsible because he is supposedly more "professional" and is open to a law suit from your wife or son if you are dead.
If you sign it off and return it to service, he would not be liable for that repair.
More mechanics would do inspections if not held liable for owner work. That's the whole point of my alternative sign off comments.
Bill, I notice you use the phrase "return to service"
How would a person that doesn't hold an airman certificate return a homebuilt to service? How could they be held liable if there is no way to track them down after the fact?
I don't know if a Homebuilt owner needs any airman certificate, but for Type cerficated aircraft a Private certificate will do.
"A person holding at least a private pilot certificate may approve an aircraft for return to service after performing preventive maintenance"... (43.7(f) )
It is very clear that parts of Part 43 do apply to E/AB such as appendix D for the inspection. So I don't see why other parts of 43 would not be allowable or required as well.
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