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Thread: Security at OSH

  1. #41
    Mayhemxpc's Avatar
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    Let's go back. We were talking about security screeners at OSH -- the only place in the world (other than in my hangar) where I am reasonably certain my airplane is safe when left unattended, and people regularly leave their electronics plugged in and unattended confident that no one will help themselves. Nonetheless, I was talking to a senior management type of a security company just yesterday, discussing how we could improve screening and security at events like Airventure while being relatively unobtrusive -- and not requiring a shakedown for pocket knives and such. Seriously speaking, was anyone actually denied entry for a pocketknife? For me it is not a matter of whether I have one, but how many and what kind of tools they include.

    Floats, I could easily challenge the Violence Policy Center "report" that the WaPo article was based on -- but that is not pertinent to this thread or forum.
    Chris Mayer
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  2. #42
    mazdaP5's Avatar
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    I had a pocket knife in my bag, they missed it every time. I ended up just leaving it behind because it was a gift from my nieces and I didn't want to lose it.

  3. #43
    DaleB's Avatar
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    Why on earth would you leave a pocket knife behind, and why would anyone care about one in your backpack? They're not prohibited.
    Measure twice, cut once...
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    Flying an RV-12. I am building a Fisher Celebrity, slowly.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    You are living or thinking in a comfortable bubble of your own making. I wish I was as confident and optimist as you that permit holders are all law abiding citizens. That is not only a gross miscalculation but a horribly misguided generalization. And what do you base that on? Some anecdotal evidence from friends and relatives? Emotional response?

    There are tons of US statistics about permit holders involved in violent crimes. Here's just one that might surprise you: People with legal concealed carry permits have committed at least 29 mass shootings since 2007 (The Washington Post 10/26/15). Cold comfort for me.
    Oh, I agree with you... there's always some bad apples in a group. So, would you rather be unarmed? Or do you think some teen aged girl at the bag check point is going to stop them?

  5. #45
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    In nearly all states that issue them, concealed carry permit holders have a more stringent criminal background check than that which is necessary to buy or possess guns in general.

    What the permit doesn't engender is how much common sense the applicant has.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    Well, I have a carry permit and own several pistols and a slew of various long guns. The guys who jump up and down and cry about constitutional right to carry guns into certain places they are reasonably denied are the people I am scared of. These are almost certainly the same guys who have had at least one negligent discharge in their life.
    I for one wasn't jumping up and down to defend a right to carry when I wrote "A huge percentage of EAA are current or former military or police. Yet EAA requires us to voluntarily disarm to attend their magnet event." So to be clear, this post is not because I'm fighting mad. Just confused.

    There is NO reason that makes sense to me for the vast majority of legal gun owners, ESPECIALLY the vast majority of current and former military and police, to be disarmed when attending a large public gathering. Hijackings dropped when the armed federal air marshall program began. Increased security at major events usually includes increased armed police presence, often with undercover officers throughout the crowd in addition to K9 units and SWAT teams visible to arriving guests. The deterrence to a threat of violence is usually increasing the probability of failure, failure to achieve the violence or failure to avoid punishment, achieved in part by denying the bad actors a full knowledge of the defense they must breach. Bad guys choose soft targets. An unknown number of defenders with unknown capability in addition to the visible counters makes their job harder, perhaps unattainable. Why tell the wolves you have a pen full of sheep? Let them guess. Or - perhaps we don't trust the majority of our trained, experienced current and former employees? Are we that lousy an employer? Do we only want the criminals and terrorists to have weapons while good guys are defenseless?

    I don't. Your mileage may vary.

  7. #47
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    You're deluded. None of the things you've claimed have ever been shown to be true, even in the FASCIST NRA's most optimistic slant on it.

  8. #48
    baboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhemxpc View Post
    Seriously speaking, was anyone actually denied entry for a pocketknife? For me it is not a matter of whether I have one, but how many and what kind of tools they include.
    A couple of years ago we were held up at the entrance gate from the North 40 by what looked like a college aged "security" person. One guard was checking our backpack and another one at the table noticed my pocket knife clipped in my pocket. She told me no knives allowed and I had to read her the actual rules regarding blade length and everything while proceeding to bring up the rule on the EAA website. I got the feeling she didn't like being challenged and finally another security person came over and after some discussion let us in.
    This year the goofball security lady at the North 40 entrance asked if she could search our backpack and I casually replied "I guess". She didn't like that and told me I should follow all the rules and authorities. That pissed me off yet again but I somehow kept my mouth shut. This was the same lady that wanted to check our backpack as we were leaving the show grounds back into the North 40. Not sure why...
    Brock
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  9. #49

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    It's security theater. Nothing more, nothing less. It's stupid. How secure can an event be when the general public can freely fly into it?

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by VP1 View Post
    It's security theater. Nothing more, nothing less. It's stupid. How secure can an event be when the general public can freely fly into it?
    +100

    Like many so called 'security' measures, it is merely going to allow the less-than fully-educated and aware folks to "Feel Safe". These days it seems to me as a self-admitted curmudgeon that it doesn't matter if a measure ACTUALLY improves safety as long as it looks like it does. The masses need their feelings soothed. I have no doubt that the EAA wants to appear to be doing all it can to keep their guests 'safe' and the part-time gate "guards' are part of that effort.

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