Historical Accuracy vs. Modern Sensibilities

[Frank Giger]

On historical aircraft, no problem. Indeed, sanitizing history is pretty dangerous, IMHO. When one oohs and ahs over a FW-190, for example, it's good to remember who's toolbox it belonged to. The same for replicas.

Everything else, just weird. If someone wants to paint Nazi crap all over their Cessna 172 that's their call...but don't expect any praise from me. Especially if they're from Illinois. One has to wonder why in the hell any American would glorify the 3rd Reich is beyond me.

That said, I am completely hypocritical on painting aircraft in Allied schemes. Go for it. We are, after all, the good guys.

That's why I stick to WWI aircraft, back when we all hated and killed each other simply because it was the thing to do. Even then, I built a French plane because there were no American WWI scouts, only French planes flown by Americans.

[edit]

I found out after I built my plane that home building is actually something that's happened before, which explained why everyone over there (my parents immigrated, so my distant relations are in Germany) was so casual about it.

Here's my great uncles and their glider shortly before the war:



Bear in mind that this glider was at the 1936 Olympics as part of the demonstration team, and if one wanted a tow the symbol on the front did not hurt.

If I could find this glider and restored it, the nose decal would be on it, along with the Olympic rings.

If I were building a similar glider, or recreating it, probably not.

[Floatsflyer]

There are only a few absolutes in this world. Two of them are:

There are no good Nazis, and
The use of the Swastica symbol or emblem is a decision to be avoided at your peril.

The Swastica was an ancient religious emblem from 3000 plus years ago used by numerous cultures around the world. Until the late 1920's/early 1930's, with the rise of the Nazi Party and Nazi Germany, it was mostly seen as a positive symbol. Nazism ended that.

The Swastica, as co-opted by the Nazi Party in Germany, has ONLY been seen since as Nazi symbolism and an emblem of Naziism. It is viewed by the world as a symbol of genocide, crimes against humanity, unconscionable atrocities, racism, hate, white supremacy, mass murder, the holocaust, anti-semetism and terror. It does not belong anywhere in a civilized, intelligent, empathetic society. Certainly not to be used for something so lame and unmitigatingly useless as historical accuracy. History must never be forgotten, eroded or changed but some symbols of history will not be recognized and used any more.

Today in Germany and other countries, it is a criminal offence to publicly show the Swastica and Cross. In my province of Ontario since 1908 there has been a very small town named Swastica. The name still exists in some form although it is now a part of the town of Kirkland Lake, about 400 miles north of Toronto.

[robert l]

Well Float, Not a sympathizer at all but most, (the foot solider and pilots also) were normal people. They had boy scouts, went to church and had pretty much the same life as any other industrial country. For the most part, they were 3/4 through the war before they found out that Germany was the aggressor. They had been told that Germany had been attached, so they fought long and hard just like any country would do having been attached. Also, Italy's Mussolini, was as bad as Hitler, genocide, death camps, ect. but we don't hear about that. And what do you know, Italy's flag is still basically the same as it was during WW II. It doesn't matter what we think, people will paint their aircraft, car, tank, house, whatever, the way they see fit. Back in 1988 I had to name the dirt road I lived on in order to get an address with 911 capability. Some people would name it after themselves but I decided I had a chance to do something most people don't get to do. I named the road, "Podunk Way". When we moved I took the sign with me, it hangs above my shop door now
Bob

[rwanttaja]

There are no good Nazis....

C'mon, Floats. The British, Canadian, and US armies were engaged in large-scale production of good Nazis, up through May 1945. :-)

Today in Germany and other countries, it is a criminal offence to publicly show the Swastica and Cross.

I'm aware of the banning of the swastika, but what cross is banned?

Ron Wanttaja

[Floatsflyer]

I'm aware of the banning of the swastika, but what cross is banned?

Ron Wanttaja

The Celtic Cross

[Frank Giger]

Bonus points to Ron for the "good Nazi" line. We sure did make a lot of them.

If you mean the Iron Cross, it's only banned in Germany if it has a swastika in the center. It's not widely used, however, as it is considered going against the spirit of the law, if not the letter.

Even then, if used in a historical context it is allowed in Germany....though permission must be granted.

Floats, we're of a like mind on the whole Nazi symbol thing - I think it's distasteful outside of a strict historical setting.

However, here in the USA we have the most broad legal interpretation of free speech of any place in the world. One could put a Hello Kitty as Hitler on their plane, and apart from some copyright issues it would be perfectly legal.

Frank "That's actually kind of funny in a perverse way" Giger

[rwanttaja]

And on a lighter note....

However, here in the USA we have the most broad legal interpretation of free speech of any place in the world. One could put a Hello Kitty as Hitler on their plane, and apart from some copyright issues it would be perfectly legal.

Ron "In before the lock!" Wanttaja

[Frank Giger]

Just masterful!

You know it's true because it's on the Internet.

[rwanttaja]

The Celtic Cross

Gotcha, thanks. Had to look it up, but see what you're saying.

...However, here in the USA we have the most broad legal interpretation of free speech of any place in the world. One could put a Hello Kitty as Hitler on their plane, and apart from some copyright issues it would be perfectly legal.

Ga.... baaaaa....daaaa.....
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^(sound of nearly-human brain stunned by the possibilities.....)

And the fun thing is, Hitler/Nazi parodies were fair game for USAAF nose art.

Hmmmmm......

Ron "It....could....WORK!" Wanttaja

[Bob Dingley]

Today in Germany and other countries, it is a criminal offence to publicly show the Swastica and Cross.

I enjoy the annual airshow at NAS Pensacola. The Luftwaffe usually displays a Panavia Tornado. Its assigned to the Luftwaffe unit that lives at Navy Pensacola. It is marked with the cross on the wings and under the cockpit. Also it has a small national flag on the Vert Stab.