FAA Chain of Ownership thru Registration

[N404CX]

How scrupulous is the FAA in maintaining the chain of ownership in an aircraft? By that I mean, if A sells a plane to B, and B sells it to C without ever registering it in B's name, will the FAA inquire as to why B never registered it in B's name?

With cars, I've often seen titles go thru a short term owner without registering. But with something as important as an aircraft, into whose trust the new owners place their lives, more care could be required.

I know that when a sale occurs, both parties are expected to send paperwork independently to the FAA, but in my example above, if B never submits their side of the first sale and only submits their side of the second sale, the FAA could ask What's Up?

Thanks in Advance, -glen

[Dana]

No problem, it happens all the time. There may even be several intervening owners.

Just as common is that B's name is never entered on the bill of sale from A, C fills it in with his own (C's) name and as far as the FAA is concerned, A sold it to C.

Dana

[FlyingRon]

As far as the FAA is concerned B never owned it. B may have a hard time registering and hence legally flying the plane without being recorded as the owner.

[martymayes]

I know that when a sale occurs, both parties are expected to send paperwork independently to the FAA, but in my example above, if B never submits their side of the first sale and only submits their side of the second sale, the FAA could ask What's Up?

Seller B can't submit anything to the FAA regarding the second sale because he was never a registered owner. If a number of years has elapsed from when seller A sold the plane and buyer C registers it, C may find his plane has been deleted from the registry. :-(

[FlyingRon]

Seller B can't submit anything to the FAA regarding the second sale because he was never a registered owner. If a number of years has elapsed from when seller A sold the plane and buyer C registers it, C may find his plane has been deleted from the registry. :-(

Yes indeed C may have a hard time proving to the FAA that he owns the aircraft without the current owner of record (A) singing it over to him. The FAA bill of sale form isn't quite the same as most state's car titles.

As for deregistration, it really doesn't matter. Since B or C could never have legally registered the plane, they can't legally fly it. The worst thing that happens in the interim (if a whole lot of years have transpired, like SIX I think) is that the N number was available for reassignment to someone and it got taken.

[cub builder]

As FlyingRon and others point out, the FAA Bill of Sale has to have a signature by the last registered owner and by the current owner that wishes to register the aircraft. That becomes a bit of a problem if the previous owner has passed away and you are unscrupulously honest. If one allows the registration to expire, the N number stays on the books for another 5 years before it is released. the aircraft can be registerd during this time frame and get it's registration number back. If one wanted to register the aircraft after the N number had been released, I suspect the FAA would still be looking for a chain of ownership as aircraft don't just materialize. They even want a bill of sale for the plans or kits for plan or kit built aircraft, although one can work their way around that with a notarized statement. If the registration number has gone past the 5 years limit and is released, the aircraft can still be registered again with a bill of sale, but one would also need to get a new airworthiness certificate as the Airworthiness Certificate was tied to the Registration number. While one would think you should be able to apply for a replacement with the new number (like when one changes the N number on an aircraft). In the last discussion I had with FSDO on this subject, they indicated that the aircraft would have to be inspected by either a FAA Airworthiness Inspector or a DAR for conformity to the type certificate if it was a certificated aircraft, or a new Airworthiness inspection by either a FAA Airworthiness Inspector or DAR if the aircraft is Experimental-AB.

-Cub Builder

[Yooper Rocketman]

My cousin died about 12 years ago while he was restoring a PA-16 Clipper (mostly torn down, no new work yet). I got it from my aunt and all the paperwork she had. No airworthiness certificate, no paper registration, so I went on line and found it was still listed in the prior owner's name, not my cousin's. Great, he was deceased too. The FAA said no problem, just get owner "A" to sign it off to you, who would now be his brother that was the executor of his estate. I find him 1,000 miles away, he agrees to sign it off, but I need a document from the court saying he is still executor of the estate. A visit to the local court house and I find the case was closed 10 years ago, and the only way he can sign as the executor is to petition the judge to reopen the case ($$$$). I called the FAA and told them this plane will never be registered again if we can't find an alternate way. The present owner is not going to spend a bunch of money, travel 2,000 mile for court hearings, to sign off on a plane his brother DIDN'T own when he died.
The FAA agreed to consider a notarized statement from him, my aunt and me on how the airplane ownership sequence transpired. There was essentially little cash value to this pile of parts. A few phone calls and 2 years from the first attempt to register ownership, the FAA finally granted me my registration. It's still a pile of parts, but my project plane should fly this summer. Maybe another year or two and the Clipper will get some attention.

[cub builder]

I have seen it done where the bill of sale was lost, so someone just signed the deceased name on the bill of sale and backdated it back to when the deceased was still living. Not necessarily legal, but if nobody is going to contest the sale and it's just a matter of lost paperwork, it is much simpler and gets the job done. Note: I have not done this myself, nor am I necessarily recommending such an action. Just stating that it has been known to happen.

-Cub Builder

[deftone]

My cousin died about 12 years ago while he was restoring a PA-16 Clipper (mostly torn down, no new work yet). I got it from my aunt and all the paperwork she had. No airworthiness certificate, no paper registration, so I went on line and found it was still listed in the prior owner's name, not my cousin's. Great, he was deceased too. The FAA said no problem, just get owner "A" to sign it off to you, who would now be his brother that was the executor of his estate. I find him 1,000 miles away, he agrees to sign it off, but I need a document from the court saying he is still executor of the estate. A visit to the local court house and I find the case was closed 10 years ago, and the only way he can sign as the executor is to petition the judge to reopen the case ($$$$). I called the FAA and told them this plane will never be registered again if we can't find an alternate way. The present owner is not going to spend a bunch of money, travel 2,000 mile for court hearings, to sign off on a plane his brother DIDN'T own when he died.
The FAA agreed to consider a notarized statement from him, my aunt and me on how the airplane ownership sequence transpired. There was essentially little cash value to this pile of parts. A few phone calls and 2 years from the first attempt to register ownership, the FAA finally granted me my registration. It's still a pile of parts, but my project plane should fly this summer. Maybe another year or two and the Clipper will get some attention.

Im glad you kept at it and finally got it figured out. Getting it back in the air would be a great way to remember your cousin.