I'm confused about the maintenance and annuals on an experimental I purchase.

[martymayes]

Even if the date on the last CI " Condition Inspection" is not up yet or due. As soon as you start the New CI the old one is void or expired. You will need a ferry permit to move this airplane after you start a CI and you fail it.

Absent documentation that says a condition inspection was "started" how would one know?

[1600vw]

No idea. Just what is stated by Joe in the webinar I posted.

I guess you could say this about the inspection its self. Why do it? Just sign the log book, who would know?

Tony

[Marc Zeitlin]

Even if the date on the last CI " Condition Inspection" is not up yet or due. As soon as you start the New CI the old one is void or expired.

Where is the regulation that says that? Please be specific.

Starting a CI (whatever that means - there's no logbook entry for "starting" an inspection) has no effect whatsoever on whether the airplane's last CI is still in effect. All the rules say is that the CI expires at the end of the 12th month. There are no rules that say how long a CI can take to perform or when it needs to be started. Only that the airplane is not legal to fly if the last CI has expired.

[Marc Zeitlin]

No idea. Just what is stated by Joe in the webinar I posted.

The slides in the webinar lasted about 38 minutes, and I re-watched them all. I saw exactly nothing addressing your claim that a new CI start voids the old one - can you point us to the timeline in the presentation where such a claim was made?

I did not watch the whole Q&A section, but _IF_ anyone stated this without indicating a reference FAR, I beleive that they're incorrect, as I've never seen or come across any such claim or regulation. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack, but still...

[1600vw]

I believe you have stumbled upon a very big problem in aviation. Ask one person something you get one answer. Ask someone else the same question and you get another answer. You would have to write Joe Gauthier {DAR} a letter and ask him this questions.

[1600vw]

The slides in the webinar lasted about 38 minutes, and I re-watched them all. I saw exactly nothing addressing your claim that a new CI start voids the old one - can you point us to the timeline in the presentation where such a claim was made?

I did not watch the whole Q&A section, but _IF_ anyone stated this without indicating a reference FAR, I beleive that they're incorrect, as I've never seen or come across any such claim or regulation. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack, but still...

Its in the question and answer section. You missed it.

[Bill Berson]

Hi Marc,
So you give the owner a list of discrepancies but nothing in the log.
What then is the owner supposed to do or what can he do after those discrepancies are cleared by the owner? He should not need to return to the same A&P if across the state or if he sold the airplane. The condition inspection was completed and there is no requirement for the inspector to supervise or dictate standards for the repairs.
Is any owner log entry about the inspection required?

With a certified airplane, I give the owner a list of discrepancies, sign the log as unairworthy as required by the FAR43.11(a)(5). In some cases, the owner can clear the discrepancies (if preventive maintenance) and return the aircraft to service in accordance with 43.7(f). Or can use any other A&P to clear the list. A second inspection is not required.

But experimental is excluded from 43, so I am still confused about proper experimental condition inspection log entry if an owner doesn't want the inspecting A&P to also complete the repairs. It should be possible to pay for an inspection only, without repairs.
Marty may not agree. Where are the rules?

[martymayes]

I believe you have stumbled upon a very big problem in aviation. Ask one person something you get one answer. Ask someone else the same question and you get another answer.

Consensus is a good thing Tony.

[martymayes]

But experimental is excluded from 43, so I am still confused about proper experimental condition inspection log entry if an owner doesn't want the inspecting A&P to also complete the repairs. It should be possible to pay for an inspection only, without repairs.
Marty may not agree. Where are the rules?

Bill, here is the recommended statement for signing off an A-B condition inspection from the operating limitations (item #23 in the most recent revision):

“I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on [insert date] in accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to part 43, and was found to be in a condition for safe operation.

How do you sign off the condition inspection if part of that statement (the underlined part) is not true?

There is nothing that says any repairs necessary to make the aircraft safe must be performed by the A&P performing the inspection. So I see no reason why the inspecting A&P could not allow the owner or other designated person to make those repairs (unless s/he simply doesn't want to). Of course, those repairs would have to be completed so the aircraft meets the "condition for safe operation" requirement. Only then could the inspecting A&P enter and sign the required statement into the records.

[1600vw]

Consensus is a good thing Tony.

I agree. The problem is not everyone comes to the same consensus.

Bill, here is the recommended statement for signing off an A-B condition inspection from the operating limitations (item #23 in the most recent revision):

“I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on [insert date] in accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to part 43, and was found to be in a condition for safe operation.

How do you sign off the condition inspection if part of that statement (the underlined part) is not true?

There is nothing that says any repairs necessary to make the aircraft safe must be performed by the A&P performing the inspection. So I see no reason why the inspecting A&P could not allow the owner or other designated person to make those repairs (unless s/he simply doesn't want to). Of course, those repairs would have to be completed so the aircraft meets the "condition for safe operation" requirement. Only then could the inspecting A&P enter and sign the required statement into the records.

This has been stated many times in this thread.