I have to assume you are referring to Sen. Jean Carnahan?Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood
The only aviation related news stories I can recall about Claire McCaskill involve questionable use of taxpayer money for ~90 flights in a PC-12 she owned with her husband and others via LLC and that the LLC failed to pay MO property tax on the same aircraft for several yrs, something she was "unaware of." Of course in both cases, she wrote checks to cover the bills owed and it was all forgotten.
Marty, the accident that I referred to was when the husband and son of the Mo (Sen or Gov?) crashed in IMC weather. Despite the FAA finding that both vacumn pumps were intact and had not failed the jury found that that was the cause of the crash.Sad in this case.
Do I have the name wrong? Was it Carnahan and not McCaskill ? My memory it that the pilot was the son, the Dad, co pilot was Gov, and both were instrument rated and the plane may have been a twin. I don't know about anything on Pilatus flights and don't think that has anything to do with the crash I am referring to.
I think the widow then was appointed to the office or later ran and was elected.
P S , I just looked up the accident history and you are right, Carnahan, not McCaskill.This accident is one of the reasons that I almost never fly IMC, if you make a mistake it can and often is fatal. Heck, all those Missouri folks look alike to me, Jesse James, Mark Twain, etc.
What do you mean about "if his attitude has changed about night x-c," etc. Who do you mean and what does that have to do with this whole topic? The glider pilot was not doing a night flight, was he?
Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 01-20-2013 at 12:55 PM.
If this case were filed, it would be in federal court against the Sheriff. Civil rights cases are great for the lawyers because the city or the county pays the winning lawyer's fees when they win.
I would have to check this exact application, but my understanding is that you can not be forced to waive a constitutional right. They can make you sign a form, but it carries no weight going forward. Sort of like you can not sign a liability release form and waive your right to sue for negligence. If the other party is negligent, instead of merely incompetent, you can always sue.
I regret that I spend way too much time, when I would rather be flying, with lawyers, FAA stuff, FDA stuff, and other administrivia. And it helps to have a former state Attorney General in the family to keep me honest.
This particular Sheriff likely never expected to get as much attention as he is seeing. AOPA has a lot of lawyers on tap and I suspect that they are "educating" him so that this never happens again.
As for the nuke plant security folks, they are commercial security people. They have all of the authority of you and I to complain about passer-bys and neighbors. They are not aviation experts, are likely completely untrained about aviation operations, and if there is a lawsuit and they are placed on the witness stand, a good attorney will take about a minute and a half to shred their judgement about how low the sailplane was. That's what good attorneys do. But in the end, this case would have nothing to do about aviation and everything to do about a sworn law enforcement officer infringing on the civil rights of the pilot under the color of law. Its not about what the FAA said or the SSA published, its about a Sheriff who went ahead and arrested and individual even when he had no articulable evidence that a real crime had been committed.
Fly safe,
Wes
N78PS
The information guy at Grand Coulee Dam told me I could fly over the dam all I want. That thing is about 100 feet thick of concrete, they don't care.
Nuclear plants are virtually impenetrable by small airplane. And even if the building was breached, any significant disaster is extremely improbable.
Wes,
Being "forced" to waive a right is called duress. However, you can voluntarily waive most constitutional rights and certainly can waive your right to sue for negligence.
While a waiver may not prevent someone from filing suit, properly drafted they are enforced.
On a other note, the sheriff's conduct is governed by intergovernmental immunity. There are exceptions to this immunity, for example violating civil rights or gross negligence. However, police are generally immune from these types of errors.
Daniel Findling
Something like this makes me like not using a radio even more. Non of this would have happened if he had no radio. Would he not have just sailed on and no one would have known whom he was or from where he came?
What I learned from this is:
This will happen again to someone somewhere.
Keep your mouth shut on the radio if using one and you hear something like this. Leave the area and go on about your day.
Local police can not tell you to land or force you out of the sky.
And the power plant security guys are absolved of that moral and legal duty? They are not expected to know that the airspace over their facility is NOT protected airspace? Why not?
Cheers,
Jerry
NC22375
65LA out of 07N Pennsylvania
Don't think that I would go so far as to not use the radio. Radios are helpful tools.
What I would do is be polite. Diplomatically suggest that any local law enforcement will find it in their best interests to speak with the FAA about aviation rules before taking any action. Communicate that it is not in your or their interest that the incident become larger than a simple misunderstanding. Try to make sure that your encounter is on camera. Most newer police cars these days have a video camera running whenever the flashing lights are on. And everyone has cell phone cameras. The federal courts have ruled that it is legal everywhere to film and audio record police on the job. And never agree to not sue for misconduct. The longer that you are detained, the better your case for damages. Patience and calm are your friend. Then go get the best attorney you can find.
Being older when these things occur can be a real advantage. When I was young I had much less understanding of how our legal system works and not nearly enough patience to effectively employ the legal tools that we have available.
But if you want to learn patience, build and airplane or do paperwork with the FAA...
Best of luck,
Wes
N78PS
Last edited by WLIU; 01-21-2013 at 12:12 PM.
It's not that they're absolved, they never had a moral or legal duty in the first place because they are not sworn or obligated to know, uphold and apply laws and/or regulations. I'm curious to know why you continue to believe or have an expectation that $10 an hour security guards should be held to such standards and accountability?
As Wes has already said on the subject they have no authority, likely have no aviation expertise and are not trained in aviation operations.
Last edited by Floatsflyer; 01-21-2013 at 12:51 PM.
That is correct. The folks at places like power plants are officially armed security guards per state and federal certification. They are NOT police. Much like mall security on steroids. I will hazard a guess that they are not trained beyond trespass law, use of force law, and workplace safety. They don't have to know anything about aviation, boating, hunting, fishing, or any other activity that takes place around where they work.
The security folks called the local Sheriff to complain. That's fine. They are allowed to do that.
Funny story - there is a state prison near the site of an annual aerobatic contest. One of the out of town competitors went out to practice her flight program and did it over the prison. None of us ever think much about what's on the ground except to try to limit the noise footprint of what we do. Well a representative of the prison staff telephoned the airport and requested that we not provide entertainment for the inmates. So we were good neighbors and passed the word around that folks should go a little farther away to practice. But the corrections staff had no authority to do more than ask.
Fly safe,
Wes
N78PS
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