How to transport auto-gas to airport?

[Dana]

I accept your point about a container not designed to contain pressure. and your point about the average homebuilder/joe not caring about legalities - heck, just check other threads to prove that point. but go back and read that quoted article. "a flammable atmosphere could be created within the container or tank. This atmosphere would be particularly sensitive to ignition because of the increased pressure." get it? when the tank is full of very rich fuel vapor, it's not so easy to ignite. when air is pumped in, at some point the perfect explosive mixture may be reached. probably will be reached...

I did some calculations and research on this. I forget the exact numbers, but a gas tank in the sunlight can get up around 5 psi internal pressure, which is about what the common portable gas cans are required to withstand. The dangerous explosive mixture isn't reached until a considerably higher pressure.

I bring my gas to the airport in the common red 5 gallon plastic container, and I have a rig using a foot pump (made to fill air mattresses) to pressurize the container. The can sits on the ground, and I can easily pump the gas several feet up to the tank in my Kolb. Sure beats holding the can over my head.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...t=Dsc01919.jpg

[Mike M]

ok, we've pretty much decided that no matter what the laws require or the safety rules indicate, we're all going to keep on doing what we've been doing because it works for us so far and we're convinced neither man-made nor scientific laws apply to us anyway.

now, back to the original questions:

Q. What sort of 'safety' requirements are needed to transport gasoline on a private trailer? A. check OSHA and your state DOT requirements.

Q. How do FBOs typically handle this? (I would buy it from the FBO if they offered it.)
A. most do not. others might add it to their product offerings if there is enough demand. insurance requirements and fuel supplier dictates sometimes govern their actions. if you bring it up with them, they may try to charge a flowage fee for bringing your own fuel onto the airport. many aircraft operators have successfully fought flow fees if the FBOs on the field don't offer the fuel being "imported".

Q. Are there vehicle insurance policy requirements?
A. not by my insurance carrier. read your policy. if it says nothing about it, you have no requirements. if you call your company and ask, you may get a revised policy. may not. but your rate won't go down if you call, i'm betting.

Q. How are gas vs. aviation taxes handled?
A. contact your state tax agency. in my moves from state to state, some rebate the difference between road tax and aviation tax and send the aviation tax to the right pot. some rebate the entire amount, including county option taxes, and don't forward the aviation tax to the feds. some don't have a clue what the heck you're talking about. as to the federal aviation fuel tax, check IRS form 720. if your state doesn't forward the info to the feds, you may be required to submit it with your aviation fuel excise tax payment.

http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i720/ch01.html

as an aside, i've known folks who shall remain nameless who said they kept a data plate registered so they could get the state fuel tax rebate on the gas they're actually burning in their cars, trucks, or campers, and they never file form 720. your morals may vary.

[Frank Giger]

ok, we've pretty much decided that no matter what the laws require or the safety rules indicate, we're all going to keep on doing what we've been doing because it works for us so far and we're convinced neither man-made nor scientific laws apply to us anyway.

Not quite correct.

The question is one of "what is the most prudent" method of transporting and dispensing fuel outside of using the underground tank and commercial dispensing from the FBO.

Commercially available systems that apply pressure to a vessel containing fuel for dispensing exist; in the litigation happy environment we live in they've got to be reasonably safe if the operating instructions are used or they wouldn't be on the market. But one does have to follow the instructions on PSI during filling and relieving the pressure afterwards.

[edit]

IIRC, the gas used is Nitrogen, and there's a check valve to prevent overpressurization for the rating of the container.

I will concur wholeheartedly that one should not attempt to fabricate such a system themselves.

[/edit]

Indeed, the discussion has been about safety first; and one towards caution most of us don't use in our homes.

My neighbor asked me what the metal box in the backyard was for and was suprised that I keep my three gallon plastic gas can that I use for my lawn mower in it. He laughed outright - he's a fireman and kept his stuck in a corner of his garage like 99% of everybody, potentially filling it full of fumes.

I'll most likely fill my aircraft using 5 gallon jugs and a siphon hose (single 12 gallon tank), and remove the gas can from the hangar otherwise.

[Bill Berson]

Using 5 or 2.5 gallon plastic jugs is easy enough. Even for a high wing C-172, I would put my thumb on the nozzle and set it into the fuel tank and leave the jug laying on the wing as it empties. No need to hold it up.
I just don't like hauling fuel inside my car, even in the trunk because it has air vents to the cabin. A small trailer is preferred.

I have seen a Piper Cherokee with a burnt wing, fueling from a plastic jug can start a fire in some conditions.
Better to stand back and watch while holding a small fire extinguisher, if possible.

[Garth Elliot]

The man who rents sapce to me in his hangar, modified his plastic gas cans....there is a metal flop tube in the can which is always in the gasoline....and then he used a ground cable that clips onto the external portion of the fitting to which the flop tube is connected....this is to keep the can grounded at all times when refueling.
The local airports here are paranoid about lawyers and so they will not let anyone put fuel in a portable gas can.
A company named Vulcan Industrial Packaging used to provide "ExploSafe" gas cans....metal csns....with a metal tinsel filling the interior......they could not explode. You could fill them with fuel and then put red hot bullets through them and they wouldn't explode.
I still have several and I use them. Thie potential problem is one of contamination over a long period of use. Therefore a safety gas funnel is useful.

[Mychael]

What I used to do when I wanted mogas for my Luscombe. I had a sort of home made/custom made trailor with high sides and no gate. It would comfortabley fit 2x44gallon (200 litre) drums diagonally across. I had found a place that would make new drums specifically for carrying fuel.
I fitted the two (empty) drums into the trailor, made blocks/spacers so they were secure and then ratchet strapped it all together.

Went to the local garage/service station to fill them up. With me I carried 4x heavy duty battery jumper leads. I earthed the drums to the trailor and the fuel pump and the trailor to the fuel pump at the nozzle. Same as if you were re-fuelling your aircraft at an aerodrome. I did not worry about earthing my car as I reasoned that by being conected to the trailor by tow point and tail light leads it was already in the circuit.

At the airfield I'd pull the aircraft up to the trailor, the drums stayed on the trailor the entire time. Used the same jumper leads to earth only this time to the aircraft and for pumping I'd invested in a proper rocker arm type pump with clear glass filter and water trap/drain plug and replaceable line filter.

I did this for quite some time until I'd moved to another airfield where my hanger was only about 100ft away from the fuel bowser and I could pull the aircraft over with needing to start. Convienience then outweighed cost and I stopped using mogas and just refuels with 100LL. Oh and when using the drums always used a Mr.Funnel for added protection.

[Bob Dingley]

decades ago i set up a t-fitting in my car's fuel hose with an outboard motor fuel connector on the leg of the "t". hooked up detachable hose, ran end into fuel tank on plane, turned on ignition switch on car so car's electric pump would run, and preflighted plane. knowing fuel flow rate, i'd monitor time and turn off ignition before the car tank ran dry or the plane tank overflowed. outboard fittings had spring-loaded seals, and i put a cap on outlet end of the hose so it didn't get dirt inside or let stink out in the trunk. i couldn't think of a cheaper way to do it.

I just got my every other month copy of Farm Show magazine and saw an article for a system to tap a pickup's fuel tank. The purpose is to provide a filtered, no fuss refueling system for small engines. The inventor states a one gallon/min flow rate. It has a five foot hose and nozzle at the rear of the tuck bed. Could be extended.
The Fuel-Tool PT-500 will be available June, 2013 for $299. The company has been offering a motorcycle to motorcycle buddy fuel transfer system. www.fueltool.com The link to the truck system doesn't work yet. Contact:
Mike McAvey
269 Bellair Rd Ridgewood, NJ 07450
201.956.2350
I recall lots of interest in fuel handling at the time and it seemed to die off unresolved. I'm just throwing this out if it will help. I don't have a need for this at the moment. If I did, I would get components from Harbor Freight, hook it up and have a full 5 gallon can handy if I should totaly drain my Dakota's 21 gal tank accidently. BTW, I use gas found on pure-gas.org to find no ethanol gas.

[bwilson4web]

I was at "Tractor Supply" yesterday and saw some very nice fuel systems. I don't remember the amount they carried but that is probably the approach I'll use.

The other option, someone mentioned an 'additive' for 100LL that reduced or mitigated the lead deposits. However, I am very skeptical about additive claims.

Bob Wilson

[Wilfred]

I use Fast Flo containers, 7.5-gallon units, with a hand rotary pump to bring fuel from an auto gas station to the plane.The pump moves 5-gallons a minute and is neat and fast. I had some leak problems at the handle but the company up-graded my pump to a commercial quality unit with a major price discount when we couldn't cure the leak. A relatively inexpensive unit that works well. They are sold by many auto racing and boating suppliers.

[pacerpilot]

You can pump fuel from the car fuel tank with a small electric automotive fuel pump and a hose. I haven't tried this, but have seen this done.
I use two 2.5 gallon gas cans, like Ron said.

Or...you could pump gas from someone elses car with a small electric pump and a hose!