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Thread: LSA with dog carry capacity?

  1. #1

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    Question LSA with dog carry capacity?

    Am a sport pilot with one wife and two 40+ pound dogs.
    Was Looking at jabiru J230 and J250 as They have both space and loading allowance to easily permit the two 40+pound dogs in back behind pilot. Most LSAs not so.
    (There is also the Storm Rally LSA. But AFAIK it's an unsupported orphan and only about five or so even exist.)

    My question is are there any other LSAs That have that behind the pilot capacity or even a huge luggage space with 80+ pounds allowable?

    Alex

  2. #2

    LSA With Pets

    Quote Originally Posted by skyranger2 View Post
    Am a sport pilot with one wife and two 40+ pound dogs.
    Was Looking at jabiru J230 and J250 as They have both space and loading allowance to easily permit the two 40+pound dogs in back behind pilot. Most LSAs not so.
    (There is also the Storm Rally LSA. But AFAIK it's an unsupported orphan and only about five or so even exist.)

    My question is are there any other LSAs That have that behind the pilot capacity or even a huge luggage space with 80+ pounds allowable?

    Alex
    I'm sure there are plenty of options out there, but I've had personal success with The Airplane Factory's Sling 2 LSA. The sliding canopy offers easy access to the baggage area behind the 2 seats, and I fashioned a restraint system to the dog's harness using carabiners and aircraft cable with little effort. It's an LSA so there's not a lot of space, but workable for a day or weekend trip with small duffel bags. The Sling is available as a kit or a Ready-To-Fly (RTF) with plenty of great features/benefits you can learn about from their website.
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  3. #3

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    LSA with dog carry capacity

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    I'm sure there are plenty of options out there, but I've had personal success with The Airplane Factory's Sling 2 LSA. The sliding canopy offers easy access to the baggage area behind the 2 seats, and I fashioned a restraint system to the dog's harness using carabiners and aircraft cable with little effort. It's an LSA so there's not a lot of space, but workable for a day or weekend trip with small duffel bags. The Sling is available as a kit or a Ready-To-Fly (RTF) with plenty of great features/benefits you can learn about from their website.
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    Thanks,
    Sling is one I didn't think of. So far the J230 and J250 Jabiru are my front runners. The issue includes max take off weight and baggage specs.
    When you add up my wife and my total of 310 pounds, plus 90 pounds of dogs, plus, say 120 pounds for just 20 gallons of fuel we're up to 520 pounds not counting any personal baggage. That maxes out many LSA usable load. The Jab (being really a 4 seater that they took out the rear seat and arbitarilly rated MTOW as as 1320lb to make it LSA legal engineering-wise, if not documented, has a max take-off-weight of close to 1700lbs and a useful load of about 800 pounds. AFAIK no other LSAs can touch that.

    Question about the Sling though: What's it's spec about how much weight you can have behind your seat where your lovely pooch rides? And is noise an issue for his ears? Dogs have better hearing than us and no headsets. Do you put cotton in his ears or anything?

    Alex
    Last edited by skyranger2; 02-27-2021 at 04:06 PM.

  4. #4
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyranger2 View Post
    ...And is noise an issue for his ears? Dogs have better hearing than us and no headsets. Do you put cotton in his ears or anything?
    Actually, take a closer look at the picture Sasquatch posted. The dog is wearing a hearing protector, tied under his muzzle.

    Ron Wanttaja

  5. #5

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    "The Jab (being really a 4 seater that they took out the rear seat and arbitarilly rated MTOW as as 1320lb to make it LSA legal engineering-wise, if not documented, has a max take-off-weight of close to 1700lbs and a useful load of about 800 pounds. AFAIK no other LSAs can touch that."

    As I understand the rules, EVERY LSA has a MAX take off weight of 1320# (yes, amphibs can be a bit higher) It matters not what the rules are elsewhere on the globe, no one would responsibly advocate flying anything past MAX gross weight? So the comment about no other LSA touching that is incorrect IMHO. Any plane rated for more than 1320# is NOT an LSA..... I am unaware of any "exception" to that reg. I could be mistaken.
    "Don't believe everything you see or read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln

  6. #6

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    LSA with dog carry capacity?

    Quote Originally Posted by CHICAGORANDY View Post
    "<font color="#333333">The Jab (being really a 4 seater that they took out the rear seat and arbitrarily&nbsp;rated MTOW as as 1320lb to make it LSA legal </font><strong>engineering-wise, if not documented, has a max take-off-weight of close to 1700 lbs and a useful load of about 800 pounds. AFAIK no other LSAs can touch that."

    As I understand the rules, EVERY LSA has a MAX take off weight of 1320# (yes, amphibs can be a bit higher) It matters not what the rules are elsewhere on the globe, no one would responsibly advocate flying anything past MAX gross weight? So the comment about no other LSA touching that is incorrect IMHO. Any plane rated for more than 1320# is NOT an LSA..... I am unaware of any "exception" to that reg. I could be mistaken.
    Hi Randy. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
    You're correct, in that there are few exceptions in the LSA regulations for the 1320# limit on max take off weight. (Only documented exceptions AFAIK are 1430 lbs for seaplanes, and the ICON amphibious LSA has been granted a weight exemption by the FAA allowing a gross weight of up to 1680 lbs.)

    My point was that engineering-wise the Jabiru J230 was designed and is built, not "permitted" for a MTOW 1675.51 pounds (760kg) and that would work out to a useful load of about 800 pounds. It's official useful load when registered as an LSA hovers around a decent but not hugely impressive 520 pounds depending on options.

    However, there are about 30 Jabiru J230s officially registered as Experimental amateur-built and not as LSA or ELSA , but identical to their LSA counterparts; and those even officially have max take off weight at least 1540 pounds (some sites report 1600 pounds.)

    Below my signature is an interesting list I found of some LSAs, including some that have a "book" useful load better than or close to an LSA registered J230's 520 pounds.
    Some that sound impressive, though, are like my Skyranger ELSA (which has an impressive sounding useful load of about 700 pounds) have little baggage space (so you can't take advantage of the carrying capacity) and/or are showing on paper a good useful load because the aircraft construction itself is light and/or minimalist.

    Personally I'd feel safer flying a J230 knowingly or inadvertently loaded up to 620 pounds (100 pounds over its stated MTOW) and believing I in reality have 180 pounds left "slack" than flying one below that had a book stated useful load of 620 pounds. and was taking off right at the very edge of 1230 pound limit.

    You of course make your own calls about when reality and regulations diverge and how deal with that.

    Alex

    Allegro 2007: ........ 673 lbs book
    Dova Skylark DV-1: ... 643 lbs advertised on 2010 model sold by SkyView
    Remos GX: ............ 615 lbs book
    Evektor SportStar: ... 640 lbs
    RANS S-6LS: .......... 620 lbs book
    Alto: ................ 610 lbs
    Aerotrek A-240: ...... 596 lbs
    Tecnam P92 Eaglet: . 590 lbs book
    CTSW: ................ 574 lbs
    X-Air LS: ............ 574 lbs book
    CTLS: ................ 550 lbs book
    P2002 Sierra: ........ 540 lbs book
    Cessna 162: .......... 481 lbs book
    Last edited by skyranger2; 02-28-2021 at 02:04 PM. Reason: messed up formatting fixed

  7. #7

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    Use caution when looking at LSA empty and useful load weights as most vendors will supply unrealistic numbers when advertising their planes. I can share for you I have a 100hp Aeroprakt A22 that weighs 690lbs empty and is one of the best/lightest LSA I found when shopping for a LSA. FYI that's with a 24 gallon fuel capacity (but 32 gallon is an option) so when topped off I have less than 490lbs load available. I found my plane is so light it really gets pushed around in variable winds on landing - though it fly's great at altitude and very stable for its weight (so I think airspeed is a factor).

    I can't recommend you could try and shop for LSA's that are rated for higher gross with floats or other circumstances as your still breaking the rules when over 1320 lbs (though the plane is designed and tested for higher gross). I think its best to work with what you got and wait for the FAA to enact new LSA regulations which are expected to increase that gross weight limit using a "power index" for power increases also. Still a year or two in the future and then I expect a couple of years for new planes meeting those regulations come to market.

    Good luck and hope this can help.

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