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Thread: Oshkosh 2021?

  1. #121

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    Thanks Jeff. You are probably correct about that. I know around here in MN they took some preventative measures similar to that in restaurants and activity-based locations when H1N1 was raging. They did cancel some of our kids activities for about a week and school attendance would get to just 7-8 students in class when it would sweep through an area.

  2. #122
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmckinney View Post
    Not going to get into your fatality number as that is suspect based on reporting, but that is not the point.
    It's exactly the point. Reactions should be based on lethality, not on mere contagion rate. I'd expect organizations to react differently to green-arm cooties with a near-zero rate of deaths that a pandemic that has killed one out of a thousand Americans.

    Basically the same CDC providing the statistics on H1N1 as is providing the same data on COVID. If the death rate for COVID has been inflated by a factor of four, it's STILL killed almost ten times as many people in a year that H1N1 did.

    Ron Wanttaja

  3. #123

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    I meant to say that my original post was not to discuss the sickness. Everyone has a different opinion. I was just asking did AV take precautions in the past for other sizeable outbreaks.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmckinney View Post
    I meant to say that my original post was not to discuss the sickness. Everyone has a different opinion. I was just asking did AV take precautions in the past for other sizeable outbreaks.
    The only outbreak of similar lethality was the Spanish Flu over 100 years ago; EAA wasn't around then. The polio outbreaks in around 1955 come to mind, but considering EAA didn't even have a magazine until three years later, I doubt the conventions were that big.

    Again, the 2009 H1N1 outbreak was infinitesimal in size vs. Covid. We're talking less than 15,000 deaths vs. over 400,000 in a single year, and Covid is not done yet. In a single year, Covid deaths have matched the number of US deaths in World War 2.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ualties_of_war

    I just don't understand what your point is. Are you complaining about EAA's lack of precautions back in 2009? Or are you claiming that EAA should not do ANYTHING beyond what they did in 2009? What has EAA's reaction to a much less lethal outbreak ten years ago have to do with the current situation?

    Ron Wanttaja

  5. #125

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    Jeff gave me an answer that made sense. AV apparently may have taken some precautions when a new sickness seemed to be going around.

    For the numbers, unfortunately, it's impossible to relate the two. The recording methods were different. For COVID, ANY trace of it (tested or not, and even if you had just maybe been near someone with it - MN) at death was counted as a COVID death. CDC indicates that only 6% of the total (322k as 1/9/2021) were COVID-Only (19,000). The remaining 303,000 had 1 or more comorbidities, with the average being 2.9 other conditions. In 2009, the 15,000 is H1N1-Only. They didn't add any additional counts due to other conditions like they did for COVID. 60 million cases would definitely increase that number significantly.

  6. #126
    DaleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmckinney View Post
    For COVID, ANY trace of it (tested or not, and even if you had just maybe been near someone with it - MN) at death was counted as a COVID death. CDC indicates that only 6% of the total (322k as 1/9/2021) were COVID-Only (19,000). The remaining 303,000 had 1 or more comorbidities, with the average being 2.9 other conditions. In 2009, the 15,000 is H1N1-Only. They didn't add any additional counts due to other conditions like they did for COVID. 60 million cases would definitely increase that number significantly.
    Got a reference for that? It's interesting, if accurate...
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  7. #127

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    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ekly/index.htm

    Just above table 3. Comorbidities section. Shows breakdown.

  8. #128
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    You said: CDC indicates that only 6% of the total (322k as 1/9/2021) were COVID-Only (19,000). I went and read your reference and.... it does NOT state that 6% died from COVID only, it states that for the cause of death for 6% listed COVID only. All that means is the comorbidity for those 6% is indeterminable.
    Dave Shaw
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  9. #129
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmckinney View Post
    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ekly/index.htm

    Just above table 3. Comorbidities section. Shows breakdown.
    Good data, thanks. Is there an equivalent one for the 2009 H1N1 pandemic? I'd like to get confirmation that comorbidities are NOT included in the 2009 CDC tally of US deaths. Doing searches on "H1N1 comorbidities", they were obviously being considered...

    "Results
    Of the 272 patients we studied, 25% were admitted to an intensive care unit and 7% died. Forty-five percent of the patients were children under the age of 18 years, and 5% were 65 years of age or older. Seventy-three percent of the patients had at least one underlying medical condition; these conditions included asthma; diabetes; heart, lung, and neurologic diseases; and pregnancy. Of the 249 patients who underwent chest radiography on admission, 100 (40%) had findings consistent with pneumonia."


    "Hospitalized Patients with 2009 H1N1 Influenza in the United States, April–June 2009," New England Journal of Medicine, November 2009.

    I remember "Swine Flu" in 2009, what I don't remember is massive overflows in emergency rooms, temporary hospitals being set up in sports stadiums, or reefer trucks being deployed to temporarily store the dead.

    Ron Wanttaja

  10. #130
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    Is the COVID-19 vaccine effective in protecting the people who get the vaccination or not? If those who get the vaccination are protected after the appropriate time following the second vaccination, then there should not be a great risk for you from those who may be carrying the virus. After all, the vaccination is to protect the receiver of it. If that is the case then those who get the vaccination should feel relatively safe. Those who don't are at risk.
    Last edited by Lindberg; 01-21-2021 at 03:49 PM.

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