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Thread: Landing Gear Lessons

  1. #11

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    I am doing "gear down" and VERIFFY as the first thing in the pattern or near it. The last thing is on short final, when you are not another item is to make sure "gear down green" and then I also check prop forward. And you sure dont want to cheange fuel tanks on short final. If its not right then go around and do it over. dONT rush the go around or back into the pattern, might even have to go up and hold or crank the gear down.
    I have had "not down" 3 tmes at least. Once was actually down, and 1. I had to crank down,
    Both times due to shorted wire, firts time, Spit gear was down but no green light, next time T34 gear would not go down electically due to a bad wire at the swithch in the REAR SEAT, and had bo be cranked. Thank Lord that I had learned these checks well enough as a s student. I watched a friend land his P51 gear up because he had put down 20* flaps first for a low pass and never the gear. AND NOT AT ALL THE ORDER THE PILOT MANUEL CALLS FOR , aLL p-51, Spit, T-6 etc call for gear down BEFORE ANY FLAPS.

  2. #12
    Mayhemxpc's Avatar
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    In the Pakistan International Airlines crash a few months ago, the crew did lower the landing gear handle, but the plane was flying faster the Vlo and the gear never came down. The warning chime sounded all the way to touchdown. Mechanically moving the handle and audio warnings are sometimes not enough. Of course, if they used the pattern Bill recommends, which I restated as SLOW DOWN, GEAR DOWN, then everything else, the result would have been different. CRM was AWOL in that event. This only stresses the important of CRM, even in single pilot operations. (I think that is a restatement of Bill's OP)
    Chris Mayer
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    www.o2cricket.com

  3. #13

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    I dont know airline gear speeds but here are some fast gen av piston planes that I do know. Bonanza 154 knots, good!, T-34 only 112 knots. P 51 150 knots? , flaps can be 20 % at 275 knots. Spit IX with one of the best basic systems, 136 knots and flaps which are either up or down. P-51 has 5 notches of flaps including last at 50*!!!!!.

  4. #14
    Mayhemxpc's Avatar
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    VLO for the A320 is 250. Yes, the PIA plane was doing in excess of that when gear down was selected. It was still doing in excess of 200 kts when it first touched own. Curiously, when the plane did intercept the glideslope, the FDR shows that the gear handle was placed in the up position (A/S in excess of 250, above VLO) and never returned to the down position.

    Early model Baron 55s had a VLO of 130 KIAS. It was sometimes difficult to get them to slow down enough to get the gear down, especially during a descent. The gear will come down on an O-2A (and I imagine the C-337) above placarded VLO of 122 KIAS. You just risk ripping off one or both nose wheel gear doors. (Not me...but I know someone.)
    Chris Mayer
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    www.o2cricket.com

  5. #15
    lnuss's Avatar
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    Bonanza 154 knots
    You might want to specify the vintage and model. The F-33A (1970s) specifies 175 mph/152 kts, but many earlier Bonanzas (and Barons) were lower. A 1965 S35, for example was 165 mph. Obviously this is true of others, whether Mooney, Viking, etc.

    P-51 has 5 notches of flaps including last at 50*!!!!!.
    And the L-19 has 60º of flaps -- barn doors indeed.

    Larry N.

  6. #16
    BusyLittleShop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    I dont know airline gear speeds but here are some fast gen av piston planes that I do know. Bonanza 154 knots, good!, T-34 only 112 knots. P 51 150 knots?!.

    Quote AAF Manual 51-127-5 page 58 paragraph 1 "Slow down to 170 IAS before lowering your landing gear." however same page paragraph 3 "The normal speed in the traffic pattern with wheels down is 150 IAS."

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  7. #17
    lnuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop View Post
    Quote AAF Manual 51-127-5 page 58 paragraph 1 "Slow down to 170 IAS before lowering your landing gear." however same page paragraph 3 "The normal speed in the traffic pattern with wheels down is 150 IAS."
    Of course one reason for that difference is that the slower speed puts a lot less strain on the gear and doors, but the higher speed is available if you really need it. Just like the 175 mph gear speed on the F-33A isn't a good idea to use normally, since even 10-20 mph slower reduces the stress on it by a LOT.

    Larry N.

  8. #18
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    The Navion gear speed is 100 MPH (87 Knots), rather slow compared to the cruise speeds.

    There was a crash (Houston if I recall) where they missed a step in the checklist on the DC-9 (or one of its later variants) and forgot to turn up the hydraulics. They put the gear handle down but failed to notice the gear didn't come down. The FO was flying and noted that the plane just didn't seem to be slowing down. The captain pretty much said "I've got it" and landed it gear up.

    Good thing about the Navion, while you may not be able to lower the gear with the hydraulics off, if you could move the handle, the gear is coming down even without hydraulic assist. Usually, you can't move the handle as it is not only a hydraulic valve but also connected to the mechanical up locks. Without the hydraulics lifting the gear off the locks, its hard to move the handle. The emergency extension lever is just a bigger handle that gives you more leverage on the uplocks.

  9. #19
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop View Post
    Quote AAF Manual 51-127-5 page 58 paragraph 1 "Slow down to 170 IAS before lowering your landing gear." however same page paragraph 3 "The normal speed in the traffic pattern with wheels down is 150 IAS."
    Looking at the manual, it appears these are in miles per hour. Wonder when the Air Force switched to knots?

    Ron Wanttaja

  10. #20

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    Original P-51 airspeed indicator is in Miles Per hour. So your 170 miles are almost the same as the 150 KNOTS I gave, probably 149 knots, No real difference Best Glide 175 moph or bout 152K.
    . And as for all the many other Beech models , I fly mine and its 154 k for gear and first half flaps. Not too hard to slow to 154 except you need bout 17 inches of throttle to keep gear warning horn from sounding as you slow down.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 09-02-2020 at 01:34 PM.

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