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Thread: Searching for info on Debonairs...

  1. #11
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    That and the straight tail (obviously). They started out not being all that different (and ended up that way as well). The early 60's Debs and Bos both had IO-470s, The Debs had the 225HP model for most of the run (with an option for the IO-520/285HP in 66/67). The Bos until 1965 had the 250 or 260HP IO-470 and then moved up to the IO-520. After 67, the Debs just became the model 33 Bonanzas. By 1970 they'd given up on V tails entirely with the model 36 Bo.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve View Post
    Didn't the AOPA purchase, restore and raffle off a Debbie back in 90's? Seems there were progress stories in their magazine every month for a year.
    Yeah... And I have yet to read all of those articles. Thanks.

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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    That and the straight tail (obviously). They started out not being all that different (and ended up that way as well). The early 60's Debs and Bos both had IO-470s, The Debs had the 225HP model for most of the run (with an option for the IO-520/285HP in 66/67). The Bos until 1965 had the 250 or 260HP IO-470 and then moved up to the IO-520. After 67, the Debs just became the model 33 Bonanzas. By 1970 they'd given up on V tails entirely with the model 36 Bo.
    Well, there were the, what, 225s in the Bo... same as the Navion?

    I still love the Navion. And it's probably the "coolest looking" GA aircraft of it's time... To me. But everybody got "Jetson dreams" with that fork tailed and ruined a beautiful thing....

    Lol

    It's all subjective... in the looks department

    But it looks like the Deb has a better payload than the Navion. And, it doesn't have magnesium ruddervators to worry about... I think the ailerons might be magnesium, though....

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  4. #14
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    The early V tails had E-225's in them, as did some of the Navions. The 225 in the Debonair was an IO-470J. This is an engine that was never seen in a Navion. The IO-470C that some of the V-tails had was also a Navion engine, as were the IO-520's (don't know which submodel the Bos used, the Navion used a -BB). My first IO-550-B came out of a brand new A36 Bo.

    The Bo's were always going to out perform the Navions of the same HP because of a couple of issues. You are correct, the Debs usually have a lighter empty weight and a higher gross than the Navion, about a hundred pounds in both directions. Of course in my biased opinion the Navion has more comfort and the stouter gear and bigger tires are real nice when operating off grass.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    The early V tails had E-225's in them, as did some of the Navions. The 225 in the Debonair was an IO-470J. This is an engine that was never seen in a Navion. The IO-470C that some of the V-tails had was also a Navion engine, as were the IO-520's (don't know which submodel the Bos used, the Navion used a -BB). My first IO-550-B came out of a brand new A36 Bo.

    The Bo's were always going to out perform the Navions of the same HP because of a couple of issues. You are correct, the Debs usually have a lighter empty weight and a higher gross than the Navion, about a hundred pounds in both directions. Of course in my biased opinion the Navion has more comfort and the stouter gear and bigger tires are real nice when operating off grass.
    Ron, I know you own and love your Navion. I know they're built "hell for stout." And I love the looks of em too.

    They're still on my list, but somehow seem less practical... Parts and supply wise... That may be a wrong opinion... And it wouldn't be my last... I know the society supports them. And there's still a type certificate holder out there (though I hear that, and all the tooling is for sale).

    The Deb is a bit newer... And "seems" better supported...


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  6. #16
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    The Debs came out in 1960. Navions were built from 1946 up to the early 70's (though they stopped the canopy models in the sixties about the same time Beech killed off the 33 and the 35). Of course Beechcraft continued as a going concern up until a few years ago when they were split off to Hawker and Textron. The Navion "factory" kind of disappeared for decades. The people who own the type certificate now are no friend to the existing customer base.

    There probably ten times as many Bonanas made as Navions over the years. There were something like 1100 things branded as Debonair (which is about half the number of Navions).
    Last edited by FlyingRon; 06-08-2020 at 06:32 AM.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    The Debs came out in 1960. Navions were built from 1946 up to the early 70's (though they stopped the canopy models in the sixties about the same time Beech killed off the 33 and the 35). Of course Beechcraft continued as a going concern up until a few years ago when they were split off to Hawker and Textron. The Navion "factory" kind of disappeared for decades. The people who own the type certificate now are no friend to the existing customer base.

    There probably ten times as many Bonanas made as Navions over the years. There were something like 1100 things branded as Debonair (which is about half the number of Navions).
    Gives me more to think about... I really appreciate your insight and knowledge...

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  8. #18
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    We have had a C33 Debonair since 1989. We had a Warrior for two years and wanted something faster; luckily we found this Debonair available right on our field. It has an IO470K, and we are on the third one, the original and two factory rebuilts. The airplane is sturdy, dependable, comfortable, fast enough for us, lands nicely, and it flies like a Bonanza, i.e., great. (I've only flown a few other high performance singles, so I'm prejudiced and can't really compare the feel and responsiveness to others, except the 210 that felt like a truck.) Climb and cruise performance are less than the IO520 and IO550 models, of course, but enough for us. I plan on 145 knots and generally burn about 13 GPH in cruise. We still have steam gauges and the old Collins radios (with a couple exceptions) that the previous owner had installed. Eventually we'll evolve into the 21st century. We have an STEC autopilot. I have only flown a v-tail one time, but it felt no different than our Debonair.

    Don't want to get into a religious discussion, but if you want to fly lean of peak you might be disappointed with a 470-powered Debonair. Some 470 owners, including myself, have found theirs will not run smoothly lean of peak no matter what injectors you have or what technique you use.

    You are right that the Debonair is pretty well supported. The ABS is a great resource and will point you to vendors and service people who can help find almost anything you need. Beech parts can be fabulously expensive, but I have never had to pay truly excessive prices for anything more or less routine like fuel pumps, a landing gear motor overhaul, vacuum pumps, starters, and so forth. There are lots of Bonanzas in salvage yards, and ABS knows who the reliable sources are for more obscure used parts. Lots of people seem to know how to work on Bonanzas, simply because there are so many of them around. Not like Cessna, but still service is available almost everywhere. We choose to use a shop that specializes in Bonanzas even though it's out of town. We're confident everything gets done efficiently and right.

    The 470 engine support lags the 520 and 550 a bit, for example, engine cooling. In my opinion the original baffle system in those older Debonairs and Bonanzas was a terrible design. Didn't realize it until we got a GEM multi-cylinder display and saw how hot it was running. Newer, much better aftermarket baffle systems were available for the 520 for many years before D'Shannon Aviation finally came out with one for the 470 (designed by an ABS technical consultant). I had one installed and it is a huge improvement. Best upgrade ever.

    ABS's training program BPPP is good. Online (and occasionally live) ground school plus several hours of flight with one of their instructors. Depending on where you live BPPP instructors may be readily available or hard to reach. They have been uniformly good in my experience. There's also a private training outfit that is very good, though expensive.

  9. #19
    lnuss's Avatar
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    I have only flown a v-tail one time, but it felt no different than our Debonair.
    I've flown a number of V-35s and F-33s (besides the Debonair once), even the same model year ones, and I, too, cannot tell any difference in handling. If you were plopped inside the cockpit without knowing which you were in, and if someone had removed the tell-tale labels, you'd not be able to tell which you are in.

    can't really compare the feel and responsiveness to others,
    A Bonanza has well balanced control feel, and isn't as heavy as the Cessnas or some Pipers, and is very nicely, smoothly responsive. It's ailerons feel lighter than a Bellanca Viking though not quite as responsive. It has a solid "Cadillac" feel, too, and with the proper approach speed and a normal flare, it almost always lands smoothly -- that ground cushion works well for it. On the later models (the ones with the 175 mph gear speed, I'd recommend not using above about 160 mph for longevity) you also have a good speed brake to allow you to keep your speed up longer on approach than most, while still being able to get down in good order.

    The above comments apply equally to the Debonair.

    Larry N.

  10. #20

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    Thanks alot for the last 2 responses... They are exactly the type of info I'm looking for.... And a lot more like it...!

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