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Thread: Your wishlist for Oshkosh 2020

  1. #71
    Airmutt's Avatar
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    The damage has been done.

    Even if this virus burns itself out by July the downstream economic impacts, and I’m not talking about the DOW, have yet to be seen. As America continues to shutter to slow the spread, hundreds of thousands of peoples’ incomes are being effected. People will be forced to make choices; attendance levels and revenues generated could be severely impacted. AV revenues really bankrolls EAA, makes me wonder how badly they could be hurt. I doubt EAA management is gonna say it, but I’m sure they are worried and probably are considering the potential long term effects.

    SNF will be a good marker. The shift in dates alone will have some impact in attendance alone. The infection rate will most likely be a key driver. Thinking there are lots of folks taking a wait and see attitude.

    Based on what’s in the news maybe they should raffle off a case of TP instead an airplane, just thinking
    Dave Shaw
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  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post


    Ron "Where's Tevye when we need him? Wanttaja
    Excellent reference and analogy.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    Or you can just listen to my hero, Brigadier General Frank Savage, USAAF:

    https://youtu.be/y-Fg_c6jNTg?t=55

    :-)

    Ron "Sew them back on, sergeant" Wanttaja
    I'm not getting this reference. Savage, despite all his bravado and macho you're dead already rhetoric, did succumb to PTSD just like the men he commanded.

  4. #74
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    I'm not getting this reference. Savage, despite all his bravado and macho you're dead already rhetoric, did succumb to PTSD just like the men he commanded.
    The reference was for those who tell people to just suck it up and take it. But a pandemic is not combat.

    Besides, Savage had Combat Fatigue, not PTSD. PTSD is POST Traumatic Stress Disorder, the inability of the mind to leave a stressful situation behind it. Combat Fatigue is the reaction to the need for CONTINUED stress, where one part of the mind tries to force the sufferer to do what it perceives as its duty, and another part of the mind reacts with the quite human trait of self-preservation.

    Lay and Bartlett's novel really highlights this:

    As Gately and Stovall hurried to his side, scarcely able to believe their eyes, both men understood in a flash what was wrong. The incredible had happened.

    Frank Savage had broken down.

    Too many missions. Too many near-misses from flak and cannon shells, buried too long in the subconscious. Too many drains on the adrenalin discharged into the bloodstream to enable a man to cope with dire emergencies. Too many hours spent sitting helplessly, unable to retaliate, against the air-borne firing squad of the Luftwaffe. Too many sleepless hours spent staring at the ceiling of a bedroom under the pressure of responsibility. Too incessant and excessive a demand on the physical resources of even the strongest human body, when deprived of the opportunity for recuperation. Too much emotional stress from the perpetual denial to himself that he and his men were flesh and blood, with a right to live. Too long a residence in the halls of the living dead.


    Good book. Good movie, too.

    The book actually ends on a more hopeful note than the movie. This was deliberate, and think it was a reasonable decision.

    Ron "Why, yes, I do own a copy of the book. And the movie. And every episode of the TV series. And the Toby mug. And one of the movie posters. And a copy of the book, 'The Twelve O'Clock High Companion'" Wanttaja

  5. #75
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    OK, thanks for the tutorial on Twelve O'Clock High.

    Regarding PTSD. In WW1 they called it shell shock, in WW2 they called it combat fatigue. I thought it was now called PTSD for the last few decades.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    OK, thanks for the tutorial on Twelve O'Clock High.

    Regarding PTSD. In WW1 they called it shell shock, in WW2 they called it combat fatigue. I thought it was now called PTSD for the last few decades.
    Like I said, two different things... "Shell shock" was recognized early, but PTSD wasn't recognized as a formal diagnosis until about 40 years ago. Though, of course, when you look at the histories of the heroes after they come home from war, it's been going on a long time.

    Even though shell shock (combat fatigue, war neurosis, etc.) has been around for a while, militaries have tended to distrust it, thinking that it's a manifestation of simple fear (e.g., cowardice) rather than a human reaction to incredible pressures. In the RAF during WWII, there was a diagnosis called "Lack of Moral Fibre." Primary purpose seems to have been punishing men who collapsed under the strain...unless they had flown at least 30 missions.

    Ron Wanttaja

  7. #77
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    Ron, this is a great discussion and worth its own thread, but this is supposed to be about what you want to see at AirVenture. Right now I just hope that there will be an AirVenture. I have confidence that these things will pass, and soon, but it is a cautious optimism.
    Chris Mayer
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  8. #78
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    Ok in that spirit and given the current situation......I’ll say Port-A-Potties stocked with TP and hand sanitizer
    Dave Shaw
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  9. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhemxpc View Post
    Ron, this is a great discussion and worth its own thread, but this is supposed to be about what you want to see at AirVenture. Right now I just hope that there will be an AirVenture.
    +1

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhemxpc View Post
    Ron, this is a great discussion and worth its own thread, but this is supposed to be about what you want to see at AirVenture. Right now I just hope that there will be an AirVenture. I have confidence that these things will pass, and soon, but it is a cautious optimism.
    <Tugs forelock> Right you are, squire.

    Ron "Nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat" Wanttaja

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