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Thread: S-76 Down with Kobe Bryant, Daughter and 7 others

  1. #31

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    "The Bryant crash is likely to result in aviation rulemaking by those who know NOTHING of aviation. Like the Colgan crash, non-flying lawmakers are probably going to pass rules designed to "prevent" reoccurrence. And like the rules promulgated after the Colgan crash, there are going to be impacts far beyond what they think they're fixing."

    Concur.

    "
    your idea that a ground warning system or virtual vision would distract the pilot doesn't hold much logic."

    I don't care about your opinion on that, my mileage varied and I'm still converting O2 into CO2 on the green side. Bless your heart.

    "
    I would be glad to wager $50, that the helicopter company, will if sued pay a big settlement out of court, or lose any lawsuit that actually goes to trial."

    Concur.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    I am not a lawyer, my Son is, but I have studied relative law some. I would be glad to wager $50, that the helicopter company, will if sued pay a big settlement out of court, or lose any lawsuit that actually goes to trial.

    I have a ground warning radar in my Bonanza and it is a safety item for ifr approaches and it doesn't distract or make me crash.
    I'm not a lawyer either but my son and daughter are both lawyers although neither one of them does litigation or torts. They say the helicopter co. is small potatoes comparatively for a civil suit and will probably declare bankruptcy in due time to avoid possible payouts. They also believe that the real huge money for a civil suit is against Mrs Bryant and/or the estate of Kobe Bryant and you can bet a lot more than $50 that once the loved ones are buried and the crying and grief have subsided, the families of the dead including the pilot will be launching suits against them. You can also bet that they have already been contacted by lawyers. It usually takes 6-12 months to put forth notices of suits to be filed.

    Given the details we know so far, it's doubtful or certainly unclear whether a TAWS would have prevented this crash.

  3. #33

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    Floats, I never wrote that a TAWS would have prevented this crash, once the pilot was determined to scud run in imc conditions. It might have, but my point is the helicopter should have all available pertinent safety equiptment and this did not. Do you think the helicopter company could get away with it in court if they did not have seat belts on the premise that belts would have not saved the people anyway?
    Another way that might be to add safety to these types of flights is some restriction on what conditions they can legally fly in, maybe a visibility minimum or similar. For instance a commercial airline flight is not even legally allowed to begin an instrument approach if conditions are reported below minimums. So no going down into dangerous situations and hoping. I don't know how this would work for helicopters.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    Floats, I never wrote that a TAWS would have prevented this crash, once the pilot was determined to scud run in imc conditions. It might have, but my point is the helicopter should have all available pertinent safety equiptment and this did not.
    Bill, I never said you did write that. I was merely providing an opinion. We have learned that the FAA only requires Helis engaged in air ambulance to have TAWS so the company was under no legal or regulatory obligation to be so equipped.

    If you want to make the company culpable, then the FAA must also share in a big part of the blame because the TDSB recommendation to be so equipped was ignored by them years ago.

  5. #35

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    "Another way that might be to add safety to these types of flights is some restriction on what conditions they can legally fly in, maybe a visibility minimum or similar."

    Good idea. Already done. 91.155, 91.157, 135.205, 135.207.

    "
    Given the details we know so far, it's doubtful or certainly unclear whether a TAWS would have prevented this crash."

    One of the prelim accident report photos shows the aircraft flying into clouds. Shortly after, a witness stated "1 to 2 seconds" before impact it emerged from clouds. The flight path description and witness statement indicate the aircraft was not in controlled flight for the last portion of the profile, by which I mean after the photo showing it went into the clouds (violation 135.207, for those who think regulations change would help) and before the witness saw it emerge from clouds just before ground impact.

    Pushed weather just a bit too far?
    System malfunction? Material failure? Whatever caused it, unsuccessful transition to IFR, loss of control. Aircraft had a radalt, aviator knew he was low with higher terrain nearby, had been trained for proper IIMC procedures and was doing them. By the time TAWS would have given a warning this aviator was already trying to climb to 4000 ft which was the correction TAWS would have triggered.

    I don't believe TAWS would have prevented this crash. I don't know what caused it.
    Last edited by Mike M; 02-09-2020 at 12:41 PM.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post

    One of the prelim accident report photos shows the aircraft flying into clouds. Shortly after, a witness stated "1 to 2 seconds" before impact it emerged from clouds. The flight path description and witness statement indicate the aircraft was not in controlled flight for the last portion of the profile, by which I mean after the photo showing it went into the clouds (violation 135.207, for those who think regulations change would help) and before the witness saw it emerge from clouds just before ground impact.
    The knee jerk is to impose new regulations even though if the flight had followed the existing regulations, the helicopter wouldn't have crashed.

    The politicians need to stay out of this and not be knee jerks...

  7. #37

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    I don't know what all the discussion is about. This guy flew into the fog, and killed 9 people. Pretty simple. He may have been really lucky several times in the past and figured
    he might get lucky again. It just didn't work out for him this time.
    Last edited by malexander; 02-10-2020 at 05:01 AM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright View Post
    The knee jerk is to impose new regulations even though if the flight had followed the existing regulations, the helicopter wouldn't have crashed.

    The politicians need to stay out of this and not be knee jerks...
    Year ago, I was running a Young Eagles event at my local field.

    This was after the JFK Jr. crash. One of the parents asked me about it.

    I explained how the visibility was poor, and the pilot may have become disoriented.

    "But didn't the plane have instruments?"

    Well, yes, but vertigo makes you confused, because your body is telling you something different from what the instruments are telling you.

    "But why didn't he just follow his instruments, then?" The guy could not understand the difficulty in denying a lifetime's worth of balance to follow the gauges.

    The man wasn't stupid. He just didn't have the personal basis to understand the problem.

    Unfortunately, the politicians not only won't understand, they'll want to pretend they know the solution to give the impression of being great leaders.

    Sigh.

    Ron "Barany" Wanttaja

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    Unfortunately, the politicians not only won't understand, they'll want to pretend they know the solution to give the impression of being great leaders.

    Sigh.

    Ron "Barany" Wanttaja
    Yup! Similar to teachers who can't teach, teach gym.

  10. #40
    Sam Buchanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    Yup! Similar to teachers who can't teach, teach gym.
    Ouch......I had much rather teach in the classroom than deal with the challenges of the gym. Gym teachers are certified same as classroom teachers.

    (retired teacher)
    Sam Buchanan
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