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Thread: Help From The EAA to Save FAR Part 103

  1. #1

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    Help From The EAA to Save FAR Part 103

    Please watch this video of cloud flying with the sound off and comment here if you see a violation of FAR Part 103.23, ... or not.
    I would like to get a few pilots that understand, as I do, that this cloud flying on the fringe of LAX airport is a danger to pilots, passengers and people that live in the Los Angeles area
    and is a danger to our privilege to fly under the rules and regulations of FAR Part 103.

    Please turn the sound off on the video and be cognizant of the fact that 2 hang glider pilots made this video, edited from a minimum of nine different flights.
    Thus, a minimum of 18 infractions.
    Tell us what you think.
    Signed, Concerned hang glider pilot

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zVI26Vm_uY

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    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    How is this thread likely to be any different than the last one you started on this subject? http://eaaforums.org/showthread.php?...9592#post79592

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    How is this thread likely to be any different than the last one you started on this subject? http://eaaforums.org/showthread.php?...9592#post79592
    I would hope that it will not be hijacked. by extraneous subjects such as happened on the other thread. Should have spelled that out more clearly?
    Also, this thread is more specific. It asks for a specific action.
    Last edited by JBlack; 01-21-2020 at 10:05 PM.

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    Sam Buchanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBlack View Post
    I would hope that it will not be hijacked. by extraneous subjects such as happened on the other thread. Should have spelled that out more clearly?
    Also, this thread is more specific. It asks for a specific action.
    What is the specific action you wish to see occur?
    Sam Buchanan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
    What is the specific action you wish to see occur?
    Thank you for asking for clarification.
    Because of a history of USHPA oversight in not responding to pilot's concerns regarding illegal and unsafe practices, and because these repeated cloud flying infractions put people, property and Part 103 at serious risk, I am asking for a quorum of pilots to come together to force action against this dangerous practice.

    Part of this would entail an educational aspect for all pilots to benefit in knowledge and purpose of cloud separation FARs.

    These rules are constructed for a purpose and it seems a lot of people don't understand their importance to the safety of everyone.
    The video invokes an unreal dream state consciousness that belies a true danger that can not be calculated or justified in order to get a youtube following of uninformed people.

    This is why I asked that the video be watched without the mesmerizing musical accompaniment. Do not be lulled into the La La Land mentality that goes with this video. These pilots repeatedly conspired to dive down on these semi-stationary convergence clouds that happen to occur predictably on the fringes of LAX airport.

    It may be one thing if they did this in the middle of nowhere, still illegal, but the risk taken would be much less. As it is, they did it in about as bad a location as possible.

    So perhaps at this level, something in the form of a grassroots petition could start action against this ill considered 'selfie' (selfish) video taping as it sends the wrong message to the uninformed, who may seek to emulate the practice.

    To leave the video up is a disservice to safe flying practice. To take it down without remedy to the damage it may cause, is also a concern.

    The ' Vicarious Icarius' youtuber knows he has broken FARs but does not recognize the continuing harm he is doing by leaving the video up.
    I believe the only way to reverse some of the damage done is to make an educational public example of these infractions.
    Something more than a slap on the wrist.

    Beyond a pilot's petition from the grassroots, staging up, a letter of rebuke from the EAA organization to the USHPA organization would be informational, educational and very effective. As I said, the USHPA is not responsive to the safety concerns of ordinary hang glider pilots.
    They are more a corporation for the milking of profit out of what use to be a true non profit organization. (USHGA)
    Maybe their legal team might take notice if a representative organization such as the EAA, sent them an informational letter.

    I hope this clears up where I'm coming from.
    At this point I would like to get comments on how to move forward, in order to save people, property and Part 103.
    I don't need USHPA in order to fly.
    Part 103, is another story..

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    Here is an excerpt from the comment section of the video we are talking about.
    Knowing that some negative comments have been deleted, I am surprised that Jonathan D. has let this one through.

    Add a public comment...
    Joseph Lorenz

    7 hours ago
    How the heck do you safely maintain visual separation from powered aircraft flying in and around clouds like that?? If you're not careful, I fear you'll be prematurely joining your friends who now fly in spirit, or worse, causing it for someone else...
    ----------

    Vicarious Icarus (Jonathan D.)

    7 hours ago
    There are never any powered aircraft in any of the locations flown in this video except when it is clear and cloud free. Why? Because I'm in the mountains and without combat aircraft terrain following radar autopilot they'd all strike either the mountains or high tension wires. It's a fair a reasonable question and merits a factual answer.

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    Sam Buchanan's Avatar
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    So why would these 'free spirits' who see no need to comply with common sense and/or FARs react favorable to a hand-slap from some profit-oriented organization??

    I understand your frustration....but I think your time would be better spent enjoying your hang glider in a responsible manner rather than fretting over folks who are going to do what they want to do regardless.......

    Part 103 shenanigans have been occurring since its institution, its very nature can be attractive to those who possess an anti-authority attitude. Trying to bring more enforcement because of a few rebels will not end well for the multitude who enjoy the liberties of 103 responsibly.
    Last edited by Sam Buchanan; 01-22-2020 at 04:46 PM.
    Sam Buchanan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
    So why would these 'free spirits' who see no need to comply with common sense and/or FARs react favorable to a hand-slap from some profit-oriented organization??
    It should be more than a hand slap. Losing their membership in USHPA is not enough but it is the minimum that the crack legal team at USHPA should impose.


    I understand your frustration....but I think your time would be better spent enjoying your hang glider in a responsible manner rather than fretting over folks who are going to do what they want to do regardless.......

    Part 103 shenanigans have been occurring since its institution, its very nature can be attractive to those who possess an anti-authority attitude. Trying to bring more enforcement because of a few rebels will not end well for the multitude who enjoy the liberties of 103 responsibly.
    18 violations/sanctions/fines from the FAA will send the correct message to the rebels that put Part 103 at risk to the multitude.
    Why ignore these repeated offenses to all of us?

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    The USHPA sells it's importance to hang glider pilots as the self regulating go-between with the FAA.
    They don't seem to be able to carry out their mission.
    The Executive Officer pays himself about $130,000 a year.
    The corporate lawyer surely does better, but we are not privy to that info.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
    I understand your frustration....but I think your time would be better spent enjoying your hang glider in a responsible manner rather than fretting over folks who are going to do what they want to do regardless.......
    So if your neighbor and his friend show up one day and they say, hey, we've been sneaking into your children's rooms at night and stealing things from your home, what would your response be?
    Let it go, because they are probably just going to do what they want, regardless?
    Wait, your other neighbor says. There is video. They broke in 18 times and it is all recorded!
    They are bragging about it on youtube to all their fans! You aren't going to do anything about it, because....


    Part 103 shenanigans have been occurring since its institution,
    Well, that settles that..
    its very nature can be attractive to those who possess an anti-authority attitude.
    Anti-authority types.. got it.
    Wait! I'm kinda anti-authority!
    Trying to bring more enforcement because of a few rebels will not end well for the multitude who enjoy the liberties of 103 responsibly.
    Asking criminals to answer for their acts is too much to ask for in such a lawless society that we have become?
    Rebels without a cause get to do whatever they want or else the multitude that obeys the law will suffer.
    Who needs 103, anyway? .... I can think of a few.
    If only they would speak up while there is still time..

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