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Thread: After the deadline

  1. #11
    Mayhemxpc's Avatar
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    yep. I will tell you how that works out. My plane is in annual right now and the ADSB Out transponder is being swapped out during that time. If things don't get done by Dec 31...and right now it looks like that won't happen I will find out about the waiver. My home airport in within the DC SFRA.
    Chris Mayer
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  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhemxpc View Post
    yep. I will tell you how that works out. My plane is in annual right now and the ADSB Out transponder is being swapped out during that time. If things don't get done by Dec 31...and right now it looks like that won't happen I will find out about the waiver. My home airport in within the DC SFRA.
    Yikes. I thought I was in an uncomfortable spot, being based 1/2 mile outside Atlanta's Class B ring, and with the new ADSB/TXP sitting in a box in my basement...

    Gotta finish the RV-10, or at least get the fuselage to the paint shop, before I can spend any time upgrading the -6...

  3. #13
    Airmutt's Avatar
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    Hey Kyle, thought you were flying out of Cartersville. Did you move down to Pauling County???
    Dave Shaw
    EAA 67180 Lifetime
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  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post

    Well, very few aircraft are "appropriate equipped" to see a simple transponder. What it does is make your position and altitude known to ATC radar which then can relay it via the various traffic information services as well as making it available to controllers. Still, you want it on.
    I think you meant very few aircraft in your experience Ron. The majority of aircraft are TCAS/ACAS equipped, and many aircraft in uncontrolled airspace are TCAS/ACAS/PCAS equipped. In addition, ADS-B towers will repeat mode A/C replies so everyone with ADS-B IN can see these aircraft if something is interrogating them.

    Therefore, those owners choosing not to upgrade mode A/C transponders with ADS-B should have their transponders on at all times in the air.
    Last edited by ahramin; 12-23-2019 at 12:21 PM.

  5. #15
    Auburntsts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahramin View Post
    ... The majority of aircraft are TCAS/ACAS equipped, and many aircraft in uncontrolled airspace are TCAS/ACAS/PCAS equipped.
    Huh? In what world? Most certainly not in the piston powered GA fleet which is the focus of this forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by ahramin View Post
    Therefore, those owners choosing not to upgrade mode A/C transponders with ADS-B should have their transponders on at all times in the air.
    Actually, in the US it's not "should" it's "will" per 91.215.
    Last edited by Auburntsts; 12-23-2019 at 12:37 PM.
    Todd “I drink and know things” Stovall
    PP ASEL - IA
    RV-10 N728TT - Flying
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  6. #16
    lnuss's Avatar
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    The majority of aircraft are TCAS/ACAS equipped, and many aircraft in uncontrolled airspace are TCAS/ACAS/PCAS equipped.
    Maybe that's true of airliners and bizjets, but they are a minority of aircraft in general, and that statement is most certainly not true of general aviation aircraft -- a (possibly surprising to you) number of them don't even have electrical systems, and a LOT more have bare minimum of com (and maybe nav) radios plus a transponder. Even many that are considered well-equipped don't have TCAS, etc. That stuff is expensive.

    Larry N.

  7. #17
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahramin View Post
    I think you meant very few aircraft in your experience Ron. The majority of aircraft are TCAS/ACAS equipped, and many aircraft in uncontrolled airspace are TCAS/ACAS/PCAS equipped.
    What's your basis for this claim? Please point to an FAA, NTSB, AOPA, or EAA report that provides numbers.

    As of January 2019, there were 294,221 aircraft on the FAA registry. If we assume that every transport-category aircraft has TCAS/ACAS (probably a reasonable assumption, since it's required for most airline flights), that's less than 7% of the entire fleet. Even if we assume every *jet* (including turboprops) has it (a fact not in evidence), that's still just 15% of the entire fleet.

    The average aircraft on the FAA registry is 40 years old, which meant the majority of aircraft in the US were built at least ~10 years prior to initial certification of TCAS and more than 20 year prior to it becoming mandatory for airliners. You're saying that a majority of small aircraft owners VOLUNTARILY added TCAS/ACAS to their aircraft?

    Ron Wanttaja

  8. #18

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    We could spend quite a bit of time debating this to no purpose so I'll concede right away that if we are talking about single engine GA aircraft under $250k, none are equipped with TCAS/ACAS. My apologies. This misses the point.

    The idea of not turning your transponder on because few of us have aircraft equipped to see that transponder is misguided at best. There are plenty of fast aircraft flying in non-ADS-B rule airspace that are equipped to see you so it's not just a "shall" as pointed out above, it's also a good idea.

    In addition, as already stated while ADS-B towers do not interrogate mode A/C transponders, they do see the replies when these transponders are replying to interrogations by atc and ACAS/TCAS equipped aircraft. Those ADS-B towers then broadcast that information to all ADS-B IN equipped aircraft. Again it doesn't matter if no one around here has spent the extra $1k on ADS-B IN, those aircraft are out there and having your transponder on will at times make you far more visible to them.

  9. #19
    Auburntsts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahramin View Post

    The idea of not turning your transponder on because few of us have aircraft equipped to see that transponder is misguided at best. There are plenty of fast aircraft flying in non-ADS-B rule airspace that are equipped to see you so it's not just a "shall" as pointed out above, it's also a good idea.
    .
    No one advocated turning off mode A/C transponders especially since 91.215 specifically directs just the opposite.
    Todd “I drink and know things” Stovall
    PP ASEL - IA
    RV-10 N728TT - Flying
    My builder's log (which is woefully out of date): www.mykitlog.com/auburntsts
    WAR DAMN EAGLE!

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airmutt View Post
    Hey Kyle, thought you were flying out of Cartersville. Did you move down to Pauling County???
    I am at VPC (Cartersville). Looking at the charts it is more like 5 miles outside the ring. Still pretty close. I need to make some time for the new TXP/ADSB install...

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