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Thread: TSA and pilots

  1. #1

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    TSA and pilots

    From an older issue of SPORT AVIATION, Aug. 2004 p. 18, the EAA hotline, says TSA had/has a program where they can suspend or revoke FAA issued pilot licenses, flight engineers and even mechanics. There are no criteria listed on what/who is a security risk and apparently no court or judicial hearings, so no due process for anyone whom TSA doesn't like.
    This notice says there is a temporary hold on this action, because Congress has mandated that there be some appellate process, but TSA says they will institute the actions again once the appellate process is set up.
    I don't know what has happened to this program over the years or if it is still done today. I hope not, but as gen av pilots we don't come in contact with TSA as often. We did have some really rude and nutty Homeland Security people come in a year ago from LAX and they caused everyone trouble but seem to have left now.

  2. #2

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    Regardless of whether or not this program still exists, based on the activity of the past 3 years, believe me when I tell you that you have far, far greater existential threats than mere TSA guys goose stepping on your civil rights.

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    Airmutt's Avatar
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    Taken from AOPAs website...
    On January 24, 2003, without prior public notice or comment, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Transportation Security Administration (TSA) published "
    direct final rules" mandating the FAA to immediately suspend, revoke, or refuse to issue a pilot certificate to anyone the TSA determines poses a threat to transportation security.
    Dave Shaw
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    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    Alas that is not exactly a related case. The action in Menear were the city acting without cause, not the TSA. In fact, the TSA hadn't yet been created and the security screening was done by airline personnel. It appeared the city settled with Menear on the case shown. Menear also sued US Air, this took place in state court so I don't have easy access to the files on that.
    Last edited by FlyingRon; 12-04-2019 at 08:51 AM.

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    There are two things which are different now on the airlines from before 9-11. First, hijackers years ago were mostly less dangerous, for the most part in the U S they just wanted to go to Cuba, they weren't there to hurt anyone, much less sacrifice themselves or injure the passengers. They may have been motiviated by dissatisfaction with the U S govt or system, but they didn't hate the passengers and maybe not the airline. They were a better class of hijackers if you will. And the airlines, with some intelligence, realized that and just cooperated in whatever was needed. The pilots would take the person to Cuba, land safely and refuel and might be back in the U S the same day.
    This all changed with 9-11 when the passengers on flight 91 heard on cell phones about the crashes in New York, and realized that these hijackers were different, and horrible as it was, fighting back was the only course left to the passengers. So now its all different, the passengers are not going sit still while the plane is flown to a crash target. If you should happen to be an old fashioned one who just wants to go to Cuba, you are out of luck.
    And of course, this no cooperation motive is now with the pilots also, we have the reinforced cockpit doors, and the pilots are not going to open those doors in response to threats.
    And I don't think TSA is the major factor in this case.
    Sounds crazy, but its true that we had a better class of hijackers back in the old days, before idealistic driven hate became the main motivating factor.

  7. #7

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    The FIRST hijacking? Would you believe 1919?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...aft_hijackings
    "Don't believe everything you see or read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln

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    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    Yep, the pre-911 protections against hijacking and even terrorism were all predicated on the principle that the perpetrator wasn't willing to die for the cause. Even that was known not to be true. There were a a few previous cases (notably two involving airline employees) where the employee used (or attempted to use) an airliner in murder-suicide.

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    Airmutt's Avatar
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    So if you get into TSA Code 1540 Chapter 10 you will find that if you are an airman and the TSA determines that you are a threat then they will send a form letter to the Administrator recommending that your certificate be revoked. The Administrator will in turn send you a form letter via first class mail informing you that your certificate has been revoked. You can find copies of both letters online.
    I assume the appeal process with the FAA is similar to any other revocation or suspension action.
    Given the limited interaction Part 91 types have with the TSA I doubt that this much of threat, unless you act like an idiot or say something stupid during a chance encounter.
    Dave Shaw
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  10. #10
    Mayhemxpc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    Yep, the pre-911 protections against hijacking and even terrorism were all predicated on the principle that the perpetrator wasn't willing to die for the cause. Even that was known not to be true. There were a a few previous cases (notably two involving airline employees) where the employee used (or attempted to use) an airliner in murder-suicide.
    I was in training at FlightSafety for a regional airline on 9/11. The next day was the training on hijacking. We were shown a film done by American Airlines which was a Pee-Wee's Playhouse style take-off on what to do in the event of a hijacking. I told the staff that this wasn't remotely funny anymore and that the world changed yesterday. Nothing shown in that film is applicable. Curiously, my comment was NOT well received by the staff. In real life, part of the before takeoff chatter included, "I've got the axe, you've got the flare gun."
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