Next Project

[Dana]

I didn't build my Hatz so I can't comment there other than to say it's very conventional construction, but it's a fairly large plane so there's a lot to build. But flying it always puts a smile on my face. Flies a lot like a Cub, just more agile (some have compared it to a clipwing Cub but I've never flown one of those).

[Kyle Boatright]

What are your thoughts on the Hatz as far as building and flying?

Lots of new skills will need to be acquired, since you're an aluminium airplane builder. Wood skills for the wings, welding and steel beating skills for the fuselage, empennage, and a thousand fittings (including the gear). And then you're into fabric covering...

It'll be a big project - it wasn't designed for ease of manufacture, although you can buy a welded fuselage and other subassemblies if that's a preferred route for you.

I can't comment on the flying part...

If I was looking for low and slow with a passenger, another airplane I'd look at would be the LSA Bearhawk. Good performance on low HP, and gives you all of the benefits of a Champ/Cub. And weldments are available.

[Frank Giger]

Or you could go the other way and look at the Airdrome Aeroplanes Sopwith Tabloid, (side by side), Schnider or Nieuport 12 (both tandem).

Both come with a welded fuselage, but the rest is tube-and-gusset, and of course fabric covered.

The Tabloid is very sedate in the air (as are all of Robert's designs); the very first full scale N12 is being built, but should similarly be gentle to the pilot.

https://airdromeaeroplanes.com/

[Auburntsts]

Or you could go the other way and look at the Airdrome Aeroplanes Sopwith Tabloid, (side by side), Schnider or Nieuport 12 (both tandem).

Both come with a welded fuselage, but the rest is tube-and-gusset, and of course fabric covered.

The Tabloid is very sedate in the air (as are all of Robert's designs); the very first full scale N12 is being built, but should similarly be gentle to the pilot.

https://airdromeaeroplanes.com/

Frank,
I went on the Airdrome aircraft website and it listed three 2-place aircraft: the Sopwith Schneider, Tabloid, and Baby, but no Nieuport 12. None of the data sheets for the Sopwiths listed the seating configuration but on the master aircraft data sheet for all of their aircraft there a notation for these 3 that said “2 seat SBS”. I take that to mean side-by-side. All 3 have a 35” wide cockpit so if they are all truly side by side that’s a real tight fit for 2 normal sized people—tighter than I find acceptable. Do you have something that indicates that any of these models actually has tandem seating?

[Tim Hoversten]

Some companies that come to mind that have models that meet your criteria are:

Zenith Aircraft http://www.zenithair.net/
Murphy Aircraft https://www.murphyair.com/
Fisher Flying Products https://fisherflying.com/
Kitfox Aircraft https://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/
Just Aircraft https://justaircraft.com/
Kolb Aircraft https://kolbaircraft.com/
RANS Aircraft https://www.rans.com/

[Frank Giger]

Yep, Schnider is side-by-side. And yes, it's tight.

The Nieuport 12 isn't on the sheet or the site, as it's a new offering, with Russ Turner building the first one.

It's very full sized and tandem.

The Tabloid is about as comfortable as a Cessna 150 for two "regular sized" people.

However, Robert is aces when it comes to modification. Widening the fuselage wouldn't be a problem.

[planecrazzzy]

Yep, Schnider is side-by-side. And yes, it's tight.

The Nieuport 12 isn't on the sheet or the site, as it's a new offering, with Russ Turner building the first one.

It's very full sized and tandem.

The Tabloid is about as comfortable as a Cessna 150 for two "regular sized" people.

However, Robert is aces when it comes to modification. Widening the fuselage wouldn't be a problem.

Building gives you time to lose weight ,
My goal was 24 lbs. , because of the extra weight my 0-235 L2C had over the 0-200
I lost a little more , and its probably better for my health .

Most pilots seem to keep their weight in check , especially in the older days.
But this sounds like a shoulder to shoulder issue , 40" in my Buttercup seems snug.
You might pooch out of the cockpit in those Bi-planes (shoulder area) ?

Gotta Fly...

[Auburntsts]

Building gives you time to lose weight ,
My goal was 24 lbs. , because of the extra weight my 0-235 L2C had over the 0-200
I lost a little more , and its probably better for my health .

Most pilots seem to keep their weight in check , especially in the older days.
But this sounds like a shoulder to shoulder issue , 40" in my Buttercup seems snug.
You might pooch out of the cockpit in those Bi-planes (shoulder area) ?

Gotta Fly...

i’m 5’11” 180 so yeah it’s a shoulder thing. I learned to fly in a 152 so anything smaller for a side by side isn’t desirable. My RV-10 has spoiled me I suppose. I don’t mind a tight single seat cockpit but I don’t want to rub shoulders or anything else with anyone while flying so I guess that means I’m going to focus on tandem seats. I’ve looked at all the models folks have posted in this thread and the Airdrome aircraft are the only ones that are intriguing and I’m going to do more research on them. Nothing else scratches my itch. I like the Hatz but it’s more work than I’m willing to do at this point. I’d say the Piet is still the front runner but I’m keeping my mind open as I continue my education.