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Thread: Basic VFR Instruments

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airmutt View Post
    But Ron there are electronic devices ( smart watches, phones, tablets) that can sense pressure altitude. I also have a pic of a Volksplane that has an automotive style altimeter installed. I can set baro on my watch and get pressure altitude too. Do those qualify as an altimeter? Setting the requirement discussion aside, where does it state it has to be a static system driven device. And that is really the crux of my question.
    (for altitude only) No one said that there had to be a conventional static system (static port(s) on the side of the fuselage, on a wing probe, etc.). So, yes, your pressure devices mentioned above (watch, iPad, automotive unit, etc., IF baro adjustable) work, and IF … per the regulations (for certified aircraft) the unit meets the TSO for altimeters (static pressure in -->correct altitude) AND the static system (in your case the cockpit environment and the watch) must be calibratable to +/- 30' per 100 knots (airspeed).

    I'll address airspeed in my next reply (to get your quote on that topic).

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airmutt View Post
    There is an app available where you can plug in local wind speed and direction and it provides TAS. And to make Ron B happy one can even define the airspeed ranges on the display. Is it perfect, no.... but its a free and getting better!!
    I love, love, love your effort! BUT ...

    Even if one could input local wind speed and direction (from ASOS or AWOS which is measured or corrected to 10 meters ~33 feet), wind is not a constant and varies with time and altitude in both direction and magnitude. In addition, TAS is not directly relatable to airspeed limitations like Vne, Vfe, Vle, Vs, etc. TAS is temperature dependent. So, one would need to measure temperature (and correct it (temperature) for Mach number). With a lot of effort, you MIGHT get there with altitude, but you are still not there with airspeed. You need to know dynamic pressure (Ptotal - Pstatic) as flight characteristics and structure depends on it.

    Regretfully, Ron W's point above about flying under class B airspace layers can be accomplished utilizing GPS altitude because those airspace layers are a tapeline (physical) altitudes (msl and/or agl) and not pressure-based altitudes.

    Blue on Top,
    Ron "you're making me think (and learn) a lot" Blum.

  3. #23
    Airmutt's Avatar
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    Ron, I assume that you know iPhones since the 6 and up can sense pressure?. If you or Ron are concerned about local static pressure variances you can Bluetooth to a Texas Instruments SensorTag which can be located just about anywhere you want. This device can also provide temperature, humidity, and serve as a magnetometer. Just ordered one to play with. Checkout Belite’s precision altimeter app.
    It’s all mute unless someone stands before the FAA/DAR and states my smart watch, phone, tablet etc is my altimeter, VSI, mag compass, and whatever and attempts to move the dial.
    Dave Shaw
    EAA 67180 Lifetime
    Learn to Build, Build to Fly, Fly for Fun

  4. #24

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    I am trying to find out if the requirements are slightly relaxed for EA-B that qualify as Light Sport Aircraft. (less requirements than regular unrestricted EA-B)
    The Light Sport rule was intended to be a step between the unrestricted ultralight vehicles and regular aircraft. I found a website that listed various different operating limitations for Light Sport aircraft of three different types: Special Light Sport, Experimental Light Sport Kits or conversion from Special Light Sport, and the uncertificated ultralights that were converted to experimental Light Sport prior to the 2008 deadline.
    So now we have EA-B that can qualify for Light Sport as defined in FAR1.1. What can that builder expect for operating limitations and required equipment?
    Last edited by Bill Berson; 09-14-2019 at 10:00 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Berson View Post
    I am trying to find out if the requirements are slightly relaxed for EA-B that qualify as Light Sport Aircraft. (less requirements than regular unrestricted EA-B)
    The Light Sport rule was intended to be a step between the unrestricted ultralight vehicles and regular aircraft. I found a website that listed various different operating limitations for Light Sport aircraft of three different types: Special Light Sport, Experimental Light Sport Kits or conversion from Special Light Sport, and the uncertificated ultralights that were converted to experimental Light Sport prior to the 2008 deadline.
    So now we have EA-B that can qualify for Light Sport as defined in FAR1.1. What can that builder expect for operating limitations and required equipment?
    There is no difference between an E-AB that qualifies as LSA and any other E-AB as far as certification or equipment requirements goes. The only thing that LSA compliance affects is what level of pilot certification is required to fly it.

  6. #26

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    Dana is dead on the money!

    I had to explain this to my boss the other day, who thought that since I'm a Sport Pilot my homebuilt must be an LSA, and was asking about how I met the LSA (ATSM) standards.

    So long as the weight and speeds are within the limitations, it falls within the types of aircraft I can pilot, so I built an E-AB within those parameters. It's an E-AB in the same way that an RV-10 is an E-AB.

    It's the same with Type Certified aircraft. I can legally pilot a 7AC Champ, for example, which has a gross weight of 1,220 pounds, but not a 7EC Champ, as it has a gross weight of 1,450 pounds.

    I'll make no statement on whether or not this is just silly, because it is what it is.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Giger View Post
    It's the same with Type Certified aircraft. I can legally pilot a 7AC Champ, for example, which has a gross weight of 1,220 pounds, but not a 7EC Champ, as it has a gross weight of 1,450 pounds.
    Oh, THAT isn't anywhere near the top of the silliness pile. If that 7AC has the heavy duty gear on it, it may have a log book entry bumping the gross weight up over 1320 and thus it's obviously FAR too dangerous for you or I (with a Private certificate but no medical) to fly. In fact... it could have been so modified in the 1950s, returned to it's original state and the gross weight dropped back down to 1220, and STILL be entirely too perilous.

    Like a lot of rules, it doesn't have to make any sense at all... it just "is".
    Measure twice, cut once...
    scratch head, shrug, shim to fit.

    Flying an RV-12. Building a Fisher Celebrity.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    There is no difference between an E-AB that qualifies as LSA and any other E-AB as far as certification or equipment requirements goes. The only thing that LSA compliance affects is what level of pilot certification is required to fly it.
    I am not so sure. The one operating limitation I found that is different is the very operating limitation that requires a category and class rating for the pilot in command. A Sport Pilot doesn't get category and class ratings. They get endorsements.
    So that same limitation must or should not apply. So an inspector going down the list of required operating limitations may or should have some discretion. I don't know if they are allowed discretion to apply common sense.

    I found this sample LSA operating limitations: http://www.faa-aircraft-certificatio...operating.html which is apparently for SLSA, and I am not sure if it applies to all LSA. Or if I can request something like it at EA-B certification. Item 17 is different from a regular EA-B. And item 17 (d) seems to allow a Recreation or Private pilot without category or class rating.

    Joe said student solo is still allowed in EA-B, but I don't yet clearly see that privilege in the operating limitations. My last hope was that LSA might have operating limitations that make sense. I may want to be an LSA instructor using my future EA-B and student solo would be needed. I also know my EA-B instruction can't be "for hire". (it would be free)
    After all, LSA was supposed to be for training, for crying out loud.
    Last edited by Bill Berson; 09-15-2019 at 09:04 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Giger View Post
    I had to explain this to my boss the other day, who thought that since I'm a Sport Pilot my homebuilt must be an LSA, and was asking about how I met the LSA (ATSM) standards.

    So long as the weight and speeds are within the limitations, it falls within the types of aircraft I can pilot, so I built an E-AB within those parameters. It's an E-AB in the same way that an RV-10 is an E-AB.
    I like the Light Sport rules, but one of the dumbest things the FAA did was to use the same term to define both Sport-Pilot-Eligible aircraft and the new certification categories. There are "Light Sport Aircraft" by the definition in 14 CFR Part 1, and "Special Light Sport Aircraft" and "Experimental Light Sport Aircraft" certification categories. This has produced endless confusion over the past fifteen years.

    Operating Limitations for Experimental Amateur-Built aircraft may be unique to each example, while those for SLSA should be identical for all aircraft of that type.

    Ron Wanttaja

  10. #30

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    Bill, if an aircraft meets LSA criteria, a sport pilot can fly it, regardless of whether it's a Type Certified aircraft, an E-AB, an E-LSA or an S-LSA.

    61.317 Is my sport pilot certificate issued with aircraft category and class ratings?

    Your sport pilot certificate does not list aircraft category and class ratings. When you successfully pass the practical test for a sport pilot certificate, regardless of the light-sport aircraft privileges you seek, the FAA will issue you a sport pilot certificate without any category and class ratings. The FAA will provide you with a logbook endorsement for the category and class of aircraft in which you are authorized to act as pilot in command.
    It's a distinction without a difference. The operating limitations of an aircraft might state that one must have a type category and class rating, but it's okay - I'm still authorized based on my Sport Pilot certificate.

    I'm Single Engine Land, and have both endorsements for aircraft over and under a Vh of 87 knots.

    With a few caveats - obviously, both conventional gear and operating in controlled airspace need additional endorsements.

    The limitations of the aircraft might exceed the limitations of a Sport Pilot, though. For example, an aircraft might be equipped for flying at night or even IFR. Doesn't matter - a Sport Pilot can't fly in either conditions.

    In the case of my little Noop, it's not referred to in any way as an LSA. It's a straight E-AB. It's a single engine land aircraft that meets every criteria of an LSA (weight, cruise speed, stall speed, etc.), so naturally I'm authorized to act as PIC.

    Here's something that may make your eyebrows rise - there is no requirement that a Sport Pilot train in an LSA eligible aircraft. It need only be Single Engine Land. Since the Sport Pilot isn't acting as PIC, the door is open to perform a flight review in a Cessna 172, a Citabria, or a Cessna 152 (all of which I've done). A Sport Pilot student must perform his solo flights and initial check ride in one, of course, as he's acting as PIC.

    https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retriev...se14.2.61_1303
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

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