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Thread: Changes for Ultralight fun fly zone area for 2020?

  1. #31

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    "By moving the UL runway farther away just seems like you're sending the wrong message to the next generation of aviators."

    Wrongway, I agree that the ULs should be provided a place to fly during the day, as is done now, that is close to the larger event. The UL activity encourages younger folks, and many others, to get involved. However, the present runway location may present some potential safety issues to the surrounding activities. Taking off on the UL runway to the N-W takes the airplane over the private campground, which is usually packed. There is supposed to be a non-inhabited emergency strip through that campground, but when I was flying last year, it was full of campers, leaving no good options for takeoff problems. Last year a Just Highlander, I believe, was doing a "show-off" takeoff and stalled just short of the fence, hit the ground, and was caught in the fence. If that stall had occurred 50 feet further, no telling how many camping units and folks on the other side of the fence would have been involved.

    The final approach to land in that same direction requires flying a very careful route to avoid flying over the airplanes parked along RW36, and close to a line of trees.

    Taking off in the other direction gives little option if trouble occurs during initial climb-out.

    And, the runway this year was essentially shortened because the landing thresholds were moved in, probably to reduce the low altitudes over people of landing airplanes.

    There may be other reasons, but I think one reason is EAA may be looking to relocate the runway to continue to allow flying, but to eliminate many of the safety issues. I don't think there have been any real serious accidents there, but if the activities continue as is, it is just a matter of time. Unfortunately.


  2. #32
    mazdaP5's Avatar
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    I noticed a tree in the emergency strip in the campground this year as well.

  3. #33
    Airmutt's Avatar
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    I saw it happen. It was definitely a max effort takeoff and climb out. He impacted at the base of the fence just inside of the grounds. You‘re right it could have been worse. Luckily there was no fire. The response time for any emergency services was awful.....like nearly 20 minutes plus. For an area that has flying activities it’s baffling that there was no support; not even a volunteer response with basic firefighting equipment.
    Dave Shaw
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  4. #34

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    With all the Gators and golf carts on the grounds, you'd think there would be a couple equipped for basic fire-fighting at the UL strip?
    "Don't believe everything you see or read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airmutt View Post
    I saw it happen. The response time for any emergency services was awful.....like nearly 20 minutes plus. For an area that has flying activities itís baffling that there was no support; not even a volunteer response with basic firefighting equipment.
    Unfortunately and inexplicably, this appears to be SOP for Oshkosh accidents. I have wktnessed some awful events on 36-18 during and outside of show times where emergency response times have been horribly slow.

    The crashes that standout where ER was so slow are the father and son Mustangs that hit one another upon landing on 36. There was fire and the son died. The Premier exec jet flown by Jack Rousch that crashed on approach to 18 just south of show centre witnessed by thousands on the burn line. It ended up pancaking facing north on the west side of the taxiway so close to those spectators who were waiting for the explosion that luckily never happened but with turbines whining at deafening decibels. Serious injuries to Rousch with no apparent physical injuries to his female companion.

  6. #36
    PaulDow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    ... standout where ER was so slow are the father and son Mustangs that hit one another upon landing on 36. There was fire and the son died.
    I was down there during that Mustang collision too. With the way the plane flipped and came down hard on the canopy, I donít think there was any chance to survive that.
    I recall there was a review of the incident, and now I think thereí a truck ready at the south end during the show.

    i believe air show rules there donít allow formation landings, and even if they did, that one was done incorrectly with the lead plane touching down first. I don't think the front plane even knew there was someone behind so close.

    A problem with volunteers having fire fighting equipment is that it may open up the liability can of worms. Even though something is better than nothing, it may require training and record keeping. Better communications may be a reasonable way to quickly activate the professional rescue crews already on site. If there was a 20 minute response delay to that UL field incident, probably no one thought to call 911, or had the on field emergency phone number.
    Last edited by PaulDow; 08-26-2019 at 10:18 AM.

  7. #37
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    If this had been an actual formation flight, they'd have managed better (such is certainly *NOT* prohibited in the airshow). The problem was they were just two close together P-51's with inadequate visual look out and awareness of their relative locations.

    https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.a...01X01080&key=1

  8. #38
    PaulDow's Avatar
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    Of course formation flight, and takeoffs are fine. I thought there was something about formation landings. I can’t find any show pilot briefing documents online to check. It’s been a few years, so its likely some of the old synapses in my brain loosened up and got disconnected.

  9. #39
    Airmutt's Avatar
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    Yay, saw those accidents too. Warbirds use volunteers as fire guards. There are volunteers who work in the first aid stations. Auto racing uses volunteers on their courses. Also remember when the A26’s nose gear folded up and they couldn’t get off the wing. Personally I would have a couple of trained volunteers with fire bottles nearby rather than wait 20+ minutes for the professionals to show up.
    Dave Shaw
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  10. #40
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airmutt View Post
    Yay, saw those accidents too. Warbirds use volunteers as fire guards. There are volunteers who work in the first aid stations. Auto racing uses volunteers on their courses. Also remember when the A26’s nose gear folded up and they couldn’t get off the wing. Personally I would have a couple of trained volunteers with fire bottles nearby rather than wait 20+ minutes for the professionals to show up.
    Only the inane racing venues use "volunteers" for rescue. The best series carry an entire safety crew with them. The lesssr series (unfortunately, this include NASCAR) delegates the authority to the individual venue which could get you anything form the local Bubbas-in-a-box to some of the best EMS in the country.

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