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Thread: Where Have All the EAB Aircraft Gone?

  1. #71
    DaleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    Bede and all the other EAB and Certified fraudsters that litter the failed GA graveyard, in total, don't come close by comparison to the Eclipse VLJ, the greatest financial failure in the history of GA. Over $1.3 Billion up in smoke and thousands who lost huge amounts of money.
    I spoke at length with an Eclipse owner once. Pretty cool little plane, but the stories he told about getting spares, replacement parts, repairs made.... it beggared belief. It's like the business model was based upon, "We'll find people who have a lot of money, and take ALL OF IT from them". That's not really an uncommon business model, but it really doesn't scale well and rarely survives very long.
    Measure twice, cut once...
    scratch head, shrug, shim to fit.

    Flying an RV-12. Building a Fisher Celebrity.

  2. #72
    Airmutt's Avatar
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    The real money in the aircraft industry is not in the sale of airframes but in the logistics support. When I go to AV I just walk past all those big dollar displays. I’m glad that those manufacturers are willing to pay the big bucks for their displays but to me it’s just fodder for the general public. I guess someone thinks that all the nice and shiny business jets, turbo props and insanely expensive aircraft impress the general public.
    The development and manufacturing startup costs for aircraft are just astronomical. Look at the delays and failures in the past decade or so. And it’s not limited to GA, the MHI RJ has been an engineering and financial train wreck. Without investors willing to go the long run GA development is pretty much DOA.
    Dave Shaw
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  3. #73
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    Yeah, and I can tell you who they were marketing to. When our company sold, I'd often be in the CEO's office answering questions. He was all hot to trot on an Eclipse.

  4. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airmutt View Post
    the MHI RJ has been an engineering and financial train wreck.
    They managed to round up enough cash to buy the CRJ line of aircraft from Bombardier only to shut down production of those aircraft. That seems like a lot of money just to eliminate competition.

  5. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airmutt View Post
    GA development is pretty much DOA.
    I think that GA is far, far from DOA. In fact I would say that there is more activity and money in GA now than for the past several decades (with the exception of the $1.4B that Eclipse squandered … some people got rich from that deal, too). Where I think we are failing is in the management of programs and the inability to tell the truth (nail on the head for Eclipse). Everyone knows that the UBER scenario is VERY, VERY power/energy intensive, but nobody is telling the emperor he has no clothes on! Moving from piston engines with tons of expensive moving parts and pieces to electric motors with one moving part (and are mass produced for the world) would be a huge advancement in the GA world.

    Ron "Not afraid of the Truth" Blum

    PS. ALL the money in GA is made on parts, service and financing. Little to none is made on the OEM sale of the aircraft.

  6. #76
    Airmutt's Avatar
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    Electric aircraft, yeh right!!
    The average electric car can’t get beyond 200 miles. So Ron as you said let’s be upfront; while it’s an admirable goal unless there are some major technological breakthroughs it ain’t happening. OK there is some sub-scale proof of concept types out there but a viable multi passenger craft?????
    Dave Shaw
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  7. #77
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    200 miles in a car is ~3 hours range...that wouldn't be bad, for an electric airplane.

    Ron Wanttaja

  8. #78

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    Right now, after a three hour (480 mile) flight, I can gas and go in ten to fifteen minutes for another 480 mile flight. How long to charge and go (without damaging batteries) for the same three hour (seriously?) flight AND for xxx miles in an electric airplane???

    I know, electrics is the future. Just not my future.

  9. #79
    Airmutt's Avatar
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    My thoughts exactly. A full charge for car can be up to 8 hours. There’s gonna operational effects too.
    Dave Shaw
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  10. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by ssteve1 View Post
    I know, electrics is the future. Just not my future.
    ssssssteve: When did you pick up the sstutter?

    Please take a moment to think out of the box just a little. Are electrics ready for prime time today as a drop in replacement for 120-year-old, developed, technology (remember the first engine to fly was 12Hp and 200 lbs.)? No. BUT electrics can offer so much to aircraft design which is a much bigger advancement than the turbine engine. Four prime examples are lighter weight (just the motor vs engine), no airframe vibration (gliders last a lot longer than powered airplanes), one physical motor can actually be 2 or 3 independent (co-located) motors and reliability is orders of magnitude higher than pistons. I'm not touching the environmental issues because that's all politics.

    Your philosophy would also end any hope of a single engine jet (not naming names). A turboprop will out perform them … be larger, less expensive and more fuel efficient, too.

    Ron "Just sayin'" Blum

    PS. "Hybrid" in airplanes is nothing like automobiles. Regenerative power is for people that have forgotten physics. Hybrid in airplanes is just a temporary way to get enough power for the current state of power storage/generation.

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