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Thread: OSH Arrival cut off

  1. #1

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    OSH Arrival cut off

    I tried to land at OSH on Thursday evening after the air show. This was a fiasco and I was unable to get in. First, the air show ran nearly 45 minutes late. Second, ATC refused to allow arrivals for 30 minutes to allow backed up departures off. Third, the C5 incident confused ATC and caused more delays. Finally, they closed the field for arrivals at the standard 8 PM despite all the delays in arrivals. Why? It is not dark until 9:30 PM. The delays were caused by ATC and the air show, not the pilots. It would be safer to allow the pilots risking their lives circling Rush Lake in close proximity to dozens of their friends to arrive at OSH instead of forcing them away to find another airport late in the evening. They may be low on fuel, they may be landing at an unfamiliar field at night, and FBOs may be closed. This really needs to be addressed in the future before someone gets hurt. I think the OSH arrival closure time needs to be flexible to reduce risk to arrivals. Your thoughts?

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by mach25 View Post
    I tried to land at OSH on Thursday evening after the air show. This was a fiasco and I was unable to get in. First, the air show ran nearly 45 minutes late. Second, ATC refused to allow arrivals for 30 minutes to allow backed up departures off. Third, the C5 incident confused ATC and caused more delays. Finally, they closed the field for arrivals at the standard 8 PM despite all the delays in arrivals. Why? It is not dark until 9:30 PM. The delays were caused by ATC and the air show, not the pilots. It would be safer to allow the pilots risking their lives circling Rush Lake in close proximity to dozens of their friends to arrive at OSH instead of forcing them away to find another airport late in the evening. They may be low on fuel, they may be landing at an unfamiliar field at night, and FBOs may be closed. This really needs to be addressed in the future before someone gets hurt. I think the OSH arrival closure time needs to be flexible to reduce risk to arrivals. Your thoughts?
    Whether you're an arrival or a departure, you make a plan based on a published schedule and EAA needs to stick to the published schedule, even if it means truncating the airshow. I'd be happy moving the tower close to 8:30, but it doesn't need to be later than that, IMO. I would not make it "flexible" - that would lead to people basing their plans on a flexible (i.e. unpredictable) schedule, which isn't a great idea.

  3. #3

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    > I tried to land at OSH on Thursday evening after the air show. T

    The airshows always go long - plan for it.

    The airport is always closed to arrivals just after airshows - plan for it.

    The NOTAM clearly says the airport closes at 8PM. It's always a hard close - plan for it.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by mc20 View Post
    > I tried to land at OSH on Thursday evening after the air show. T

    The airshows always go long - plan for it.

    The airport is always closed to arrivals just after airshows - plan for it.

    The NOTAM clearly says the airport closes at 8PM. It's always a hard close - plan for it.
    Plus One.

  5. #5

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    I agree with most that the schedule should be adhered to and it's up to the pilots to adjust for their comfort level. The same should also go for EAA, the airshow is terribly orchestrated and needs some major fat trimming. It needs to end when it's supposed to end, if that means cutting an act then that's what needs to happen. I realize they have to balance profit with their roots but there should be more focus on getting the pilots and EAA members into the show over all else.

  6. #6
    Low Pass's Avatar
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    Air show operating within the prescribed NOTAM should be a given. Anything else is just not acceptable. A violation.

    Thursday evening the tower (noticed while listening to the radio traffic) was not functioning smoothly. It was pretty rough. Guess the new Oshkosh controllers have to learn at some time. And they were only allowing departures for a long period of time. Seems to me that emphasis should be on arrivals later in the day, and departures early in the day. Or, balanced, as I've always thought it to be.
    Bryan

    Houston

  7. #7
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    We can't run arrivals past 8pM for a very practical matter. It gets dark fast after 8PM. It's not safe to have aircraft moving in the pedestrian areas after dark. THIS WILL NOT CHANGE.
    8PM gives a little cushion in the event of things like the C5 brake fire when people were on the ground but unable to taxi past the emergency.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    We can't run arrivals past 8pM for a very practical matter. It gets dark fast after 8PM. It's not safe to have aircraft moving in the pedestrian areas after dark. THIS WILL NOT CHANGE.
    8PM gives a little cushion in the event of things like the C5 brake fire when people were on the ground but unable to taxi past the emergency.
    The other issue is the volunteers. How far into the evening is anyone interested in working??

  9. #9
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    We have volunteers working later. I typically can't leave until everybody checks in. We have volunteers doing stuff down for the later "fun flight" demos as well as the night airshows.

  10. #10
    Wrongway Feldman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grum.man View Post
    I agree with most that the schedule should be adhered to and it's up to the pilots to adjust for their comfort level. The same should also go for EAA, the airshow is terribly orchestrated and needs some major fat trimming. It needs to end when it's supposed to end, if that means cutting an act then that's what needs to happen. I realize they have to balance profit with their roots but there should be more focus on getting the pilots and EAA members into the show over all else.
    I agree, not to long ago the Airshows use to be done at 5-5:30pm. But it seems to me, starting around 7 years ago, the AirVenture convention has become more focused on catering to the folks that are camping overnight on the grounds or nearby. Extending activities later into the evening, to around 10:30 pm ish". Now its 6am to 10:30pm full tilt.

    I guess they thought that the people camping on the grounds were getting bored after 5:30pm, so they extended the Airshow time a little and added other evening activities. Fun fly zone at ultralights runway, Theater in the woods, Fly in theater movie, night airshows etc.
    Gotta give dem folks a bang for their buck.

    Now after the Airshow, If you have to travel 30 to 45 miles to get to your bed, its 8-8:30pm by the time you shower & eat.

    I remember when the exhibits closed at 5:00pm, and about a half hour later the Airshow was done.

    Now a days by far the Best time to land at OSH is early mornings. SYL = Snooze You Lose :-)

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