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Thread: Trams. Oh, those Trams

  1. #21
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Franck View Post
    Randy, you miss the point completely. There are very, very few "unique" riders at the Hangar Café terminal. That throng of humanity was artificially placed here by forcing everyone off.
    Thinking 71,000 bodies come daily to ride the tram is, well, one of your better jokes.
    I'm sorry, but that is patently untrue. While many people do transfer trams, there are many who board there having originated in the Vintage area.

  2. #22
    Mayhemxpc's Avatar
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    I even got off there (Vintage) rather than being forced off, just to see the vintage area, and later continued south! The transfer point was helpful because I knew I would be able to get on a tram...maybe not the first one, but for sure the one after that.
    Chris Mayer
    N424AF
    www.o2cricket.com

  3. #23

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    Once I cross the intersection from vehicle access gate to Vintage, I am going as slow as I can, but as we have no horns and people apparently can t hear the diesel noise, I do call out, "Behind you", "Watch out" , etc, trying to get peoples attention. As the tram cars are wider than the tractor, especially the newer ones, And my head is on a perpetual swivel, I can t see people behind me and the conductor can t see from his spot either. This is even more difficult with the enclosed tractors, lots of blind spots. If the vendors in that area would position further on the grass and people in line would be cautious, brushing would most likely not happen. So Mazda, I feel your pain. if you would like to ride along in the cab to see what is going on, I will enjoy the company.

  4. #24

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    It might be less confusing if the ultralight loop could be separated about 100 feet further south to avoid confusion with the vintage loop. The point where the two loops intersect with random different stopping headings and drop points unrelated to travel direction is confusing.

  5. #25

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    Whoever thought of the tram idea deserves a statue. I use them extensively every year. Could horns be installed on the tractors to help clear oblivious people out of the way? Or a snowplow?

    This year an older lady fell off the northbound yellow tram at the Hangar Cafe, and injured her elbow. I came upon the situation just after it happened, and there were already two nurses attending to her. I (EMT-P, RN), another RN, another paramedic, and a PA stood by in case we were needed for a few minutes until we were rudely shooed out of the way by a volunteer whose beard and nickname on his vest appeared to indicate that he thinks he is in Lord of the Rings. He was not helpful at all, and was very rude to people passing by, Another tram volunteer, a slim blonde lady, was very helpful and courteous. Not sure what was up with LOTR guy, but his performance was not impressive, especially since the vast majority of people passing by were just trying to get by, and not stopping to gawk.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    I'm sorry, but that is patently untrue. While many people do transfer trams, there are many who board there having originated in the Vintage area.
    And that is based on what?
    2020 will be my 40th Convention and my 30th year as a volunteer at AirVenture. I'm within 100' of the Hangar Cafe terminal and observe the coming and goings of the Trams pretty much the entire time they are operational. Saying "many who board there are from the Vintage area" can easily be said about any other stop along every tram route.
    This whole argument pretty much boils down to efficiency vs. the idea of fairness and the natural tendency to resist change.
    If we were trying to be fair to every rider waiting at every stop then we would unload every tram completely at every stop and reload it with those waiting the longest. Tell me it's impractical to do that and you just made my argument for eliminating the unloading and turn-around at the Hangar Cafe terminal.

  7. #27

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    Have more seating capacity in service (more tractor and tram units, bigger trams, and or more trams per tractor), have clearly designated stops on both sides of the road, run every tram from one end to end of the site (i.e., no transfer stations) and have clearly marked tram roadways to help keep people clear.

    Thank you, volunteers and corporate sponsors.


    BJC

  8. #28
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    The trams have changed a number of times (not always for the better, and those changes were reverted). Used to not be a tower terminus. Used to be a terminous by the scholler/hangar B (that was a mess and glad it's gone). The red tram route was changed to a loop so there's not even a north end terminus anymore.

    However, I'll have to beg to differ. Your statement about the only thing that happens at the Hangar Cafe terminal is people unload and reload is not supprorted by my observation or others who have posted here. We make use of the fact that you will be guaranteed to get a seat in at least two tram loads at that terminus to head there rather than trying to board in the middle which might not EVER yield any empty seats. Similarly, I'll board at the tower terminal when in the exhibit buildings since I know my chances are better there than waiting for an empty seat at the stops elsewhere.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    I'll board at the tower terminal when in the exhibit buildings since I know my chances are better there than waiting for an empty seat at the stops elsewhere.
    Thanks for making my argument for not filling the trams to capacity at each terminus. If you are willing to load where your chances are best so will others. If there are no seats available at the Hangar Cafe on a straight through run people will walk to the Vintage Barn or to the Ultralight area to catch a ride. Unlike the terminus behind the Control Tower nothing branches out from the terminus at the Hangar Cafe. The Blue tram is nothing more than an extension of the Yellow tram with a lot of confusion thrown in. Make the Yellow route a straight run past Ultralights and it will self empty on it's way to the South 40 and move people more efficiently and safely. I don't understand this insistence on being more fair to the "unique" riders at the Hangar Cafe than any other tram stop along the way.
    I'm sure we all remember when the buses to the South 40 and the Seaplane Base also terminated at the Hangar Cafe terminus. Somebody evaluated that situation and made the decision to move it further South. It made the situation at the Hangar Cafe terminus immensely less chaotic. It's too bad they didn't make the decision to make the route at the Hangar Cafe a straight run at the same time.

  10. #30

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    Separating the buses from the tram stop at the Hangar Café was thankfully accomplished by the tram chiefs this year because of how inefficient the buses are at loading and unloading their passengers through that single door up and down those steps. A full tram load can be exchanged in well under 2 minutes. The buses sharing our terminal at mid-point created a nightmare.

    It will be interesting to see the results of that extensive university study of the tram service that was conducted this year. Several trams were fitted with GPS/Smartphones into which we logged the passenger occupancy (Full or Has Room) status along the routes, as well as cameras recording crowd levels at various stops and terminals.
    "Don't believe everything you see or read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln

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