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Thread: Changes to OSH Arrivals procedures?

  1. #111
    DaleB's Avatar
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    Sure, except that a substantial percentage of the traffic arriving won't be ADS-B equipped, and I'd bet a fair number will be using anonymous mode with no tail number. Then there are the guys who will have theirs misconfigured with the WRONG tail number, shut off, etc.

    It would be nice, but then it would be nice if people would read the NOTAM and fly like they had a clue. If they can't read and fly competently, what would make one think they can manage electronics any better?
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  2. #112

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    I suppose since they are already long down the road going from an organization trying to make aviation affordable to one trying to separate pilots from their money and selling promotions to the big venders selling expensive kits and gagetry why not just make ADSB and a transponder mandatory, those of us flying and building the old fashion way can form our own organization to follow what the original EAA founders intended.

  3. #113

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    Has no one taken into account what the screen clutter is going to look like with all these N numbers grouped together on the screen is going to look like ????. It is one giant blob of targets on my screen already with no N numbers showing just a target. It is completely unusable from what I have seen. I had to turn off ADSB in just to see the underlying GPS map.

  4. #114

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    I remember on flight aware it was so cluttered they just put a picture of a shark on the arrival area to promote shark week on discovery

  5. #115
    The logic would be for 2 procedures, one with ADSB out and one without it to hopefully 2 different runways. This is not meant for personal adsb use as our screens will be too cluttered and we should be looking outside. Mainly for controllers where the spacing is greater once past Fisk. It might even be an additional incentive to those non adsb folks if the required ADSB out procedure runs smoothly and the other group is chaotic.

  6. #116

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    Having 2 procedures is logical if they make the last week of July for those of us who don't have ADSB or whatever it is that we haven't needed for the last three decades, but now the FAA tells us we can't fly without. And the first week of Aug can be for all those who are up on the latest techno gadgetry. Maybe even have a contest for the 2nd group, the P/E award which is sort of like Price/ earnings in stocks, but in this case it is Price/electrodes. That is whoever has spent the most money on Garmin, Avadyne, Aspen Electronics, which by the way are from New Mexico, not Aspen., etc.

    At the FAA cheerleading session last yea,r I asked them how many mid air collisions, there were that brought on this new demand, surely must be hundreds or at least dozens. Faa didn't have the statictics. and didn't seem to care, so I got them from the Nall aurvey at AOPA. Turns out last year reported was 5 midair's, fatal to 7 people. Is this to potentially save 7 people or more likely for ATC to get gen private aviation mostly out of the way for corporate jet traffic, not at Oshkosh per se but everywhere.
    Last edited by Sam Oleson; 03-11-2019 at 02:41 PM.

  7. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by flybuddy View Post
    The logic would be for 2 procedures, one with ADSB out and one without it to hopefully 2 different runways. This is not meant for personal adsb use as our screens will be too cluttered and we should be looking outside. Mainly for controllers where the spacing is greater once past Fisk. It might even be an additional incentive to those non adsb folks if the required ADSB out procedure runs smoothly and the other group is chaotic.
    So I can choose the to follow the procedure where everyone has their head stuck inside the cabin and so many I pads stuck to the windows they can't see out or the one where people actually know how to "see and avoid" I will take option 2

  8. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by cdlwingnut View Post
    So I can choose the to follow the procedure where everyone has their head stuck inside the cabin and so many I pads stuck to the windows they can't see out or the one where people actually know how to "see and avoid" I will take option 2
    Option 1, no one will be looking inside their cockpit because it's way too cluttered--basically you seem to believe that people who have purchased ADSB are complete buttheads and don't have the common sense to look out the window when flying around hundreds of airplanes. Option 2 - your see and avoid crowd didn't do too well last year...REALITY is that ADSB is just a tool and the failings of last year were both Procedural (which ADSB helps) and pilots (not following the procedure and those who cheat by cutting in, etc, which again--ADSB helps..The loudest anti ADSB proponents are those who are still trying to rationalize the need NOT to spend money on something they disagree with. For those that have spent the money (and many of them don't agree with the "need" either), it wouldn't be such a bad thing to actually get some usefulness out of it via smoother procedures and increased safety. If you think you can't trust yourself and you're going to try and play controller while you're flying, you do have the option to turn off your ADSB in and just use the out.Let's face it, last year was a disaster and we can't stick our heads in the sand when there are viable alternatives out there.

  9. #119

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    Flybuddy, you write , " 'your see and avoid crowd didn' t do too well last year". I don't know of any accidents on the Ripon Fisk arrival last year, same as the year before. Do you have some actual factual reports that the rest of us dont? I mean on the approach, not at the airport in the pattern. And once your new technology alerts you that there are other airplanes around going to Osh, what do you expect or intend to do about it? Do you hope the other pilot will be intimidated by your image and just give up, or do you intend to look out the window and "see and avoid" other planes? Same as the last few decades. Does your idea of "viable alternatives" involve in some way restricting other pilots flying into Oshkosh?
    I think I am at least as experienced as average EAA pilots having flown in since 1983 and in 4 different airplanes and 2 different arrivals, as well as flying in the show perhaps 20 years and I have 3 simple rules to follow of which the 2nd is to look out the window and avoid other planes. Maybe I'm lucky but it seems to have worked for 30 years and I don't have any of those gadgets in my panel.

    And it is only my semi-educated guess, but like this year I think those of us with less techno cockpits are more likely to actually have a copy of the notam and actually follow it rather than what shortcuts Garmin or Avidyne says.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 03-12-2019 at 03:27 PM.

  10. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by flybuddy View Post
    your see and avoid crowd didn't do too well last year...REALITY is that ADSB is just a tool and the failings of last year were both Procedural (which ADSB helps) and pilots (not following the procedure and those who cheat by cutting in, etc, which again--ADSB helps.
    The fail last year was runway usage. On Sunday, the runways were used at ~50% of capacity with aircraft stacked on top of one another in the holds. This was a fail by the FAA/EAA to open the runways and land the *&$#!! aircraft. Sure the taxiways for 27 were toast. Land airplanes on 36 L and R, which were practically barren of aircraft, and taxi people to the N40 on 27 or via other means. You have 3 runways. There is no excuse to bog the whole thing down by marrying yourself to one runway with unusable taxiways.

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