Changes to OSH Arrivals procedures?

[Marty Santic]

<snip>
I understand that there have been some changes to the union policy since it's implementation, but not nearly enough-- most of the problems experienced this year can be directly linked to lack of controller skills, and that lack of controller skills can be directly linked to that sudden slashing of the experience level, so many years ago (1992, IIRC).

Will be VERY interesting to see if the EAA addresses this "lack of experience" issue. Surprised there were no mid-air incidents this past year.

[FlyingRon]

Will be VERY interesting to see if the EAA addresses this "lack of experience" issue. Surprised there were no mid-air incidents this past year.

Very few midairs ever at Oshkosh. Absent the one that occurred between performers, I think there's been, what one?

[flibmeister]

Very few midairs ever at Oshkosh. Absent the one that occurred between performers, I think there's been, what one?

I can verify that there was one between a C170 and a Thorp T-18, somewhere outside of Fisk, in 1990 or so. I was working Fisk at the time, but never saw or communicated with either airplane. First I heard about it was when the EAA Bell 47 (N90B?) called, telling me he'd be flying outbound on the inbound route (but down low), "...looking for the other airplane." When I asked, "...what other airplane?", he informed me that a C170 had landed and reported he thought he might have had a midair out near Fisk, but never saw the other airplane. They found substantial damage on one of the 170's flaps, so sent the 'copter out to look around. He found the Thorp somewhere in a field, south of Fisk, damaged, but (IIRC), with no injuries.

Then there was the triple fatality (probably the event that eventually brought an end to the flyby pattern), back in 1982 or so. IIRC, that one killed the pilot of a Corbin Baby Ace, and the pilot and his granddaughter in a Starduster II. Both were operating NORDO (as was customary in the flyby pattern back then).

[Bill Berson]

I saw a midair collision on 36 with two P-51's. The guy in front was on the runway rollout and the guy behind landed on his tail and bounced high and crashed inverted. Fatal to him.
I guess it was still a midair since he collided while in flight. They were not in formation or together, as I understand.

[Kyle Boatright]

I saw a midair collision on 36 with two P-51's. The guy in front was on the runway rollout and the guy behind landed on his tail and bounced high and crashed inverted. Fatal to him.
I guess it was still a midair since he collided while in flight. They were not in formation or together, as I understand.

That wasn't an arrival issue, it was a problem in landing aircraft during the warbird portion of the airshow.

[mazdaP5]

I saw a midair collision on 36 with two P-51's. The guy in front was on the runway rollout and the guy behind landed on his tail and bounced high and crashed inverted. Fatal to him.
I guess it was still a midair since he collided while in flight. They were not in formation or together, as I understand.

Gerry Beck.

[TedK]

It seems to me the root problem is mixing aircraft of different speeds, particularly on the 1800ft MSL/90 KIAS RIPON/FISKE approach. It is the most heavily trafficked approach and can get bottlenecked by slow movers who can’t make 90KIAS.

If if you can’t slow to 90 you can step up to the 135 altitude. If you need faster still, you can go to Warbird/Turbine/(Heavy) approach.

Perhaps there should be 4 approaches. Low speed (<90), 90, 135, WTH

[FlyingRon]

I saw a midair collision on 36 with two P-51's. The guy in front was on the runway rollout and the guy behind landed on his tail and bounced high and crashed inverted.

Are you talking about the one that occurred at the end of the Air Race demonstration? I knew about that one which is why I qualified it to not involving performers.

[Bill Greenwood]

Flying Ron, it should be clear, if you make an effort to understand without my having to have an editor, that my mention of light warbirds able to fly 90 knots safely was so they could use normal Ripon Fisk arrival as Jeff wrote, not for them to fly warbird arrival at 90knots.

[Bill Berson]

Are you talking about the one that occurred at the end of the Air Race demonstration? I knew about that one which is why I qualified it to not involving performers.

I have no idea if the two P-51 were performers or not.
I also watched Roush stall and crash his jet in front of me. That was a traffic conflict.
My view is that I probably will never fly the Fisk procedure. Mostly because of 60kt top speed, I guess. And the reports I read here about being passed by traffic within 50 feet, 2 hour holding, etc.