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Thread: Changes to OSH Arrivals procedures?

  1. #101

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    If any pilots are staring at the ADS-B panel instead of see and be seen or if ADS-B is required to attend then you can be sure I won't.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Berson View Post
    If any pilots are staring at the ADS-B panel instead of see and be seen or if ADS-B is required to attend then you can be sure I won't.
    ADS-B is proposed by EAA as a requirement when ceiling is less than 1500ft. We have till 27 Nov to comment to EAA.

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by TedK View Post
    ADS-B is proposed by EAA as a requirement when ceiling is less than 1500ft. We have till 27 Nov to comment to EAA.
    What is the address for comments?

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright View Post
    What is the address for comments?
    Feedback@eaa.org

    perhaps we all ought to be perusing the proposed changes at https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/news-and-...ecommended-FAA

  5. #105

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    I read thel EAA proposal with concern. There are 3 points, first it claims to have consulted all or at least many points of view in the planning, I wonder about this. In some cases EAA officials like Mac have written about the Fisk arrival when actually they fly into Oshkosh on an ifr clearance and and a different route. . I wonder how many of the last 30 years he or others in the same position have flown in via Fisk? There are some good folks in EAA offices , but often it feels as if there is a disconnect to the membership. I have never seen a survey by EAA of members on arrival suggestions, but then I have only flown in for 35 years by vfr arrival in different planes so may not be a good source. As for experts, I would give a lot of weight to those FAA people who are actually on the ground at Ripon, Fisk, though their objective may be different than pilots. Last point, now EAA is pushing to have ADS B as a requirement to fly in. It cost thousands of $$$ to fly into Osh every year, getting the planes ready, fuel, insurance, very high housing costs for week, rental car, and or taxis, food, rides in Tri motor or B-17, etc, Adding $$$ for an avionics device might discourage some, even me from coming. I know many are proud of any new device they have, like a lady with a new handbag, but Ive never needed ads to find Osh and don't relish spending $4000 to do so now. Finally, many pilots complain about how bad the arrival is, facts are that it has worked for decades and I cant even recall a collision on the arrival other than in the pattern. This year, the weather and its timing were the most intrusive, it may be better next time. We should be cautions to change a proven and known procedure.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 12-03-2018 at 07:06 AM.

  6. #106

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    As a NATCA member this post is so much BS I donít even know where to begin. Why donít you just come out and say you donít like unions.

    There are dues paying and non dues paying controllers who work OSH. Due to the current staffing crisis that has been growing over the past decade its harder to get certain controllers away from short staffed facilities to OSH.

    Also there was never an invitation only. TOTAL BS. There is and always has been a volunteer bid.

    Next time educate yourself before spreading stupid anti union lies.



    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    Ages ago, the controllers used to sort out who went where. If you were an older plane or homebuilt, they sent you to 36, if you were a spam can you'd go to 27.
    Now it seems they largely don't care and will send you randomly to either runway even when both are in operations.

    This occurred when NATCA forced a switch from OSH being an invitation-only job for controllers and they brought back the best controllers every year to being a spoils program doled out by the union without regard as to who had the best experience for the job.

  7. #107

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    You do understand there is a massive turnover of controllers in the NAS right? The majority of controllers have less than 5 years experience thanks to the FAA cant hire correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Santic View Post
    Will be VERY interesting to see if the EAA addresses this "lack of experience" issue. Surprised there were no mid-air incidents this past year.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by obmaha View Post
    As a NATCA member this post is so much BS I don’t even know where to begin.
    Some of the other controllers who worked Oshkosh for years under the old system would strongly disagree with you.
    Why don’t you just come out and say you don’t like unions.
    Because, I don't. I'm not even anti-NATCA (other than this policy). That's your invention.
    There are dues paying and non dues paying controllers who work OSH.
    Which means nothing to what I said.
    Due to the current staffing crisis that has been growing over the past decade its harder to get certain controllers away from short staffed facilities to OSH.
    WHich again means nothing to what I said.
    Also there was never an invitation only. TOTAL BS. There is and always has been a volunteer bid.
    How long have you been a controller? Because you obviously haven't been around long enough to know that it indeed was an invitation-only event years ago (and yes under the PREVIOUS union).
    Next time educate yourself before spreading stupid anti union lies.
    I am plenty educated, and not anti-union. You are the one who seems to be mistaken. Why don't you ask someone who worked Oshkosh back in the 1990s before you start shouting profanity and other insults at others.
    If you'd have bothered to READ the thread you were venting your spleen over, you'd find the very n ext post was from one of those controllers: http://eaaforums.org/showthread.php?...ATCA#post73622
    Last edited by FlyingRon; 03-05-2019 at 09:01 AM.

  9. #109

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    I have been a controller for 12 years now. Since I am involved with the planning of ATC of OSH each year I would say I am pretty educated on the sitation and have first hand knowledge of the ins and outs of ATC at OSH.

    I love how you have to go back to the PATCO days to talk about invitation only. I mean nothing has changed at Airventure or ATC in 25 plus years.

    If you would like I could share the traffic count data from the 1990s until last year. It would the steady rise of traffic so pointing out how OSH worked in the 1990s compared to today is comparing apples and oranges.

    The poster you reference isn’t a current air traffic controller so again since he has not been involved in recent air traffic controlling and planning his opinions are an educated guess at best. I am sure he was an amazing controller but controller in 2019 is different than controlling in 1999.

    You and or he have no idea the staffing issues we are facing. We have a personal problem because all the of veteran controllers with the experience kept getting selected. Now we don’t have the experience to replace the veterans because they are retiring in mass and the amount of veteran OSH controllers are limited. That doesn’t even take into account it’s hard to get some of these veteran controllers out of short staffed facilities.

    Lastly I don’t recall shouting any insults at anyone. Do I take it personally when someone without direct knowledge of the situation is Monday morning armchair quarterbacking a situation you have no direct knowledge of, yes I do. Do I take it really personally when you attach my union. You’re dam right I do.

    Feel free to come to the NATCA booth and tell the controllers working thousands of flights a day to their face they messed up Oshkosh.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    Some of the other controllers who worked Oshkosh for years under the old system would strongly disagree with you.

    Because, I don't. I'm not even anti-NATCA (other than this policy). That's your invention.

    Which means nothing to what I said.

    WHich again means nothing to what I said.

    How long have you been a controller? Because you obviously haven't been around long enough to know that it indeed was an invitation-only event years ago (and yes under the PREVIOUS union).


    I am plenty educated, and not anti-union. You are the one who seems to be mistaken. Why don't you ask someone who worked Oshkosh back in the 1990s before you start shouting profanity and other insults at others.
    If you'd have bothered to READ the thread you were venting your spleen over, you'd find the very n ext post was from one of those controllers: http://eaaforums.org/showthread.php?...ATCA#post73622

  10. #110
    IMO the ADSB out requirement is a good thing and should be required 100% of the time for normal procedures and an additional procedure established for non equipped. Controllers won't waste time with verifying aircraft (wag your wings, etc.), and it should cut down on those who don't follow procedures & those who cut in. If a controller sees a conflict he can address it directly by 'N" number much more quickly. Think about N12345, turn right immediately vs red Cessna turn right immediately and 20 red Cessnas start to turn.

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