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Thread: EAA Safety Pledge?

  1. #1
    danielfindling's Avatar
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    EAA Safety Pledge?

    Ok, I was inspired after reading an article in the recent issue of Kitplanes written by the founder of the Vans Air Force which addressed his personal minimums: e.g. No low level high speed flybys, no single engine night flying, no mass formation flying, an A&P does a look over after an oil change, . . .

    Why doesn't EAA have a safety Pledge to help promote the safety of General Aviation? (If we have one, news to me)

    Sure we have the FAR's but legal and safe are different.

    It seems that the EAA is often engaged in a (justified) battle with the bias reporting of GA accidents. For example, if statistics are unfavorably reported by [fill in the blank], an article in Sport Aviation tackles the statistics as bias. When a blog about the dangers of air racing vs. airshows is published, it is removed when our members believe aviation is being thrown under the bus.

    I propose EAA encourage more self regulation on flying and maintaining of home-built, warbird, vintage, and general aviation in addition to safety articles and tech counselors (e.g. http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/sa24.pdf)

    How about an EAA safety pledge by members to (your SUGGESTIONS here) without fear that the pledge will become over burdensome Federal regulation etc. What do you think? Make it part of the EAA culture to: e.g. "Fly responsibly, courteously, and cautiously. Set personal minimums and abide by them, and promote EAA and general aviation . . ."

    Here are some other examples?
    The Academy of Model Aeronautics National Model Safety Code: http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/105.PDF
    The National Association of Rocketry Safety Code: http://www.nar.org/NARmrsc.html






  2. #2

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    Nice idea, but as with a lot of things like this, those who listen & pledge are the ones who are least likely to need to listen & pledge. They have already taken the necessary steps in self awareness & safety.

  3. #3
    steveinindy's Avatar
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    "D**n it Janet" (sorry....couldn't resist), you beat me to it. I don't see any bias reporting against experimental versus non-experimental GA.


    It seems that the EAA is often engaged in a (justified) battle with the bias reporting of GA accidents. For example, if statistics are unfavorably reported by [fill in the blank], an article in Sport Aviation tackles the statistics as bias. When a blog about the dangers of air racing vs. airshows is published, it is removed when our members believe aviation is being thrown under the bus.
    I think the bias exists in the eyes of the reader of reports more often than whenever they read something with which they disagree with. It's much easier to scream "BIAS!" than to critically evaluate one's own activities. We do have some increased dangers and splitting hairs (excluding crashes from the test flight period for example; that's only valid if you split out the crashes of similar certificated aircraft in their first 40 hours of operations and compare them to the experimentals) like a lot of us do to make our numbers look better isn't valid statistical analysis on the face of an "apples to apples" standard. It goes back to that old Mark Twain quote about there being three kinds of liars: liars, d**n liars and statisticians.

    If we go out with the intention of quashing discussion about the safety issues inherent in our chosen activity ("when a blog about the dangers of air racing vs. airshows is published, it is removed when our members believe aviation is being thrown under the bus") it makes us no better than those you are trying to blast for "bias". Bias is bias whether we choose to agree with it or not. How about scientifically valid arguments being the goal instead of simply making it be whether it serves our ends or not.

    Instead of chasing the specter of "bias" how about we actually go after the activities that are causing experimental crashes to be so common. The two such issues that seem to be major problems are botched fuel system construction, installation or maintenance and cowboy behavior (high speed passes, untrained/uncoordinated formation flying, low altitude aerobatics, etc). Instead of splitting hairs and over-compartmentalizing our crashes to make them seem on par or better, let's expend that same energy actually making our aircraft and their use safer than their standard category counterparts.

  4. #4
    danielfindling's Avatar
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    Steve, I enjoyed your Rocky Horror reference.

    I think EAA is doing something about home-built safety with the technical counselors etc. I was focusing on the pilot. After I purchased my airplane I read every fatal accident report to help me make better decisions when flying. How many deaths are caused by unintended flight into IMC?

    I feel EAA could spend resources improving pilot saftey in aeronautical decision making in the culture of EAA (e.g. The pilot pledge) in lieu of attacking the messenger (the perceived or actual media bias). I believe that the ad hoc and ad hominem undertone of EAA (attacking the media messenger) does nothing to help GA or safety.

    I can think of several forums at Airventure where the audience cheers when a speaker boasts of flying irresponsibly but few about staying alive in a single engine airplane. As an aside, I am a newly minted private pilot and I am trying not to hurt myself by developing my own personal pledge. After all, I have three young children and a wife and next to my family, I love flying.

    Daniel
    Last edited by danielfindling; 01-05-2012 at 09:54 AM. Reason: Typo's from Ipad

  5. #5

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    Sad

    Quote Originally Posted by Janet Davidson View Post
    Nice idea, but as with a lot of things like this, those who listen & pledge are the ones who are least likely to need to listen & pledge. They have already taken the necessary steps in self awareness & safety.
    There is a significant portion of the experimental aviation community who view self awareness and safety as anathema.

    I intended to build an RV-7 and had already purchased the RV-7 preview plans from Vans. As a participant in the VAF (Vans Air Force) I was intensely interested in the VAF community that I was about to join. There was one thread that convinced me to do something else and that thread was in response to a plea from Van himself for more attention to safety in order to improve the safety record of experimental aircraft.

    While there was a lot of discussion, pro and con, about approaches to safety, one post, in particular, convinced me that I did not want to be part of the RV community. In its essence, this post about safety said that if you should happen to report anyone to the FAA for a flagrant safety violation, that you should carefully consider the possibility of retribution for that report. There wasn't even a response, one way or another, to this post. It is unimaginable, for me, to belong to a group that finds this viewpoint acceptable. I sold my RV-7 preview plans and am awaiting delivery of a quick-build kit for another popular experimental kit at the end of February. I have only the highest regard for Van himself, but some of the builders of his kits are incomprehensibly obtuse and will not accept that safety will benefit themselves and the rest of the experimental aviation community.
    Bill

  6. #6
    steveinindy's Avatar
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    I think EAA is doing something about home-built saftey with the techincal counselors etc. I was focusing on the pilot.
    Agreed. I was just saying we should do more as a community to try to correct or marginalize those pilots who are engaging in activities that are frankly unsafe (cutting corners during construction, making design modifications without recognizing the broader ramifications, utilizing substandard parts, etc)


    I can think of several forums at airventure where the audience cheers when a speaker boasts of flying irresponsibly but few about staying alive in a single engine airplane
    So can I. I flat out got up and walked out of one after hearing such behavior.

  7. #7
    rosiejerryrosie's Avatar
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    We would all benefit from more safe behavior and fewer aircraft accidents. AOPA and the FAASTeam folks are concentrating more and more heavily on safer flying and Aeronautical Decision Making. EAA would be well served to help promote their safety seminars, webinars and on line classes. I, for one, would be more than happy to sign a pledge to not kill myself or anyone else by doing something stupid. I would also pledge to point out to others if they are about to do something that is unsafe (if the pledge went that far).
    Cheers,
    Jerry

    NC22375
    65LA out of 07N Pennsylvania

  8. #8
    steveinindy's Avatar
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    . EAA would be well served to help promote their safety seminars, webinars and on line classes.
    That would be a good thing, but it only serves part of the problem since we have the rather unique situation of having a higher than normal rate of mechanical issues that result in crashes. Instead of sweeping these under the rug, they need to be brought out into the harsh light of day and dealt with accordingly. The issues have often never been fully elucidated nor addressed so it's about time we decided to fully look into it.

    I would also pledge to point out to others if they are about to do something that is unsafe (if the pledge went that far)
    I agree with you on this. It tends to be one of my most common practices. However, you're often met with resistance. That said, I often find when a guy is flying with his wife (not to be sexist, just simply playing the statistics here) talking to her and pointing out that he's about to do something stupid that is going to get them both killed comes in handy. One case that jumps to mind was the guy who was about to take off from KHUF in freezing drizzle in a 172. I politely pulled him aside and suggested he might want to rethink his decision. He told me to go do something to myself that is anatomically impossible and so I reached into my bag and produced a couple of forms for him and his wife. She asked what they were and I told her that I do crash survivability research that relies heavily on autopsy data. If they took off, I'd like to have access to their data because they wouldn't make it to the next county over before their plane was glazed like a donut. Needless to say, I found myself in the position of helping them find a hotel room and giving them a ride to it that evening. I later received a letter from the pilot thanking me for keeping him from being "that stupid".

  9. #9
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    Steve, loved your amusing and kick to the family jewels anecdote. Your a brave(and mostly caring) guy to have confronted that couple. It is part of the human condition that we don't take kindly to personal criticsm and take on a defensive, over reactive tone when confronted. Sometimes it's a far worse reaction than just words about anatomically impossible suggestions. Good for you for being proactive, you are a righteous person, you likely saved the lives of those people! They should put you in their will.

  10. #10
    steveinindy's Avatar
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    Your a brave(and mostly caring) guy to have confronted that couple.
    You tell anyone else that I'm "caring" and my standing offer to have a beer with any forum member who so desires at AirVenture will be revoked. I do have a reputation to uphold.

    They should put you in their will.
    What's even funnier is that their letter also included the forms I gave them signed "just in case".

    In all seriousness though, I don't want to add anyone else to my database if I can avoid it.
    Last edited by steveinindy; 01-05-2012 at 02:21 PM.

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