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Thread: Fisk arrival on Sunday

  1. #11
    steve's Avatar
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    For those of us who did not fly in this year, or a reminder for those who did.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9VN0WcFwZM&t=30s

  2. #12
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    Between the hastily rescheduled mass arrivals, the absolute soupy mess that recent North 40 construction has caused on some of the grass taxiways, and a couple of disabled aircraft on the runways or main taxiways and the general large amount of IMC during the peak arrivals, this year was a real mess for arrivals. Since people arrived late, they also left late, making it harder to have spaces to back fill.

    Still I think counts were up (and despite some land reclamation down south, the stupid-assed perimeter road and some additional buildings have taken many more spaces away than added)

    There's a new policy at the EAA to not turn any aircraft away by the 2020 show, however, there doesn't seem to be one whit of an attempt to involve (and get to cooperate formally) between the various volunteer groups that do the work. Fortunately, the actual volunteers are a little bit more inclined to cooperate than the EAA corporate guidance so things were starting to get settled out by the middle of the show.

  3. #13
    I was at the fisk "tower" on Sunday when the weather finally went VFR. What I was told is that a runway 9 arrival of both levels of traffic plus the blending in of IFR traffic does not give the controllers any spacing to deal with. So the 1/2 mile spacing has to be increased to 1 mile at fisk. If we have a runway 27 approach, the guys have more options to extend the downwind legs to accommodate everyone. Add into the mess the abortion of mass arrivals and you get the most congested and unfriendly airspace in america. I am still impressed that there were no mid air contacts. So glad we decided to go in on Thursday afternoon. I dont know what the solution is other than watch the weather and do whatever it takes to miss the high traffic times.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wickbuilder View Post
    I was at the fisk "tower" on Sunday when the weather finally went VFR. What I was told is that a runway 9 arrival of both levels of traffic plus the blending in of IFR traffic does not give the controllers any spacing to deal with. So the 1/2 mile spacing has to be increased to 1 mile at fisk. If we have a runway 27 approach, the guys have more options to extend the downwind legs to accommodate everyone. Add into the mess the abortion of mass arrivals and you get the most congested and unfriendly airspace in america. I am still impressed that there were no mid air contacts. So glad we decided to go in on Thursday afternoon. I dont know what the solution is other than watch the weather and do whatever it takes to miss the high traffic times.
    What was up with 18/36?

  5. #15
    Most of the time 36 was loaded with warbirds, military, show planes, as well as the mass arrivals being split up. They were sending some down fisk ave when possible. The one thing for sure is the BIG tower is in control of all arrivals. Once then land EAA is in charge. I asked about the guy that landed on 9 while 27 was the active on Saturday late afternoon. They said they are not here to police the pilots. That is a job for the FAA. I offered to get a group together to go explain the importance of the notam in detail to him. While smiling back, the pink shirt in charge said it would be best left up to EAA for a council if deemed necessary.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wickbuilder View Post
    The one thing for sure is the BIG tower is in control of all arrivals. Once then land EAA is in charge. I asked about the guy that landed on 9 while 27 was the active on Saturday late afternoon. They said they are not here to police the pilots. That is a job for the FAA. I offered to get a group together to go explain the importance of the notam in detail to him. While smiling back, the pink shirt in charge said it would be best left up to EAA for a council if deemed necessary.
    Whooooooooohhh there Charles Bronson. Just when I thought I'd heard every opinion and idea on this forum, along comes you with an offer to put together a vigilante group of pilots to "explain" airmanship and proper notam procedures to those less fortunate than you in the knowledge department. "They" were right, you're not at Oshkosh to police anyone as well so heed their advice and leave it up to the FAA and EAA to provide teachable moments. Oshkosh doesn't need "Death Wish 5".

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    Whooooooooohhh there Charles Bronson. Just when I thought I'd heard every opinion and idea on this forum, along comes you with an offer to put together a vigilante group of pilots to "explain" airmanship and proper notam procedures to those less fortunate than you in the knowledge department. "They" were right, you're not at Oshkosh to police anyone as well so heed their advice and leave it up to the FAA and EAA to provide teachable moments. Oshkosh doesn't need "Death Wish 5".
    To be honest, I've seen enough people do stupid things at Osh or SnF, I'd be happy to see a little remedial training or something equally appropriate for complete dummies - especially the ones who didn't bother to bring a copy of the NOTAM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright View Post
    To be honest, I've seen enough people do stupid things at Osh or SnF, I'd be happy to see a little remedial training or something equally appropriate for complete dummies - especially the ones who didn't bother to bring a copy of the NOTAM.
    I LOVE this forum. Honestly. All kinds of opinions and thoughts...although some people seem a little touchy sometimes or take blowing of steam as some kind of threat. OH YES I would love to have a heart to heart talk with some of the people who seem to unaware of the NOTAM or act as though it doesn't apply to them That is NOT vigilanteism. It is fraternal correction. Without such correction, the pilot will continue to make mistakes, thinking that his behavior or action is appropriate. I have spoken thusly to pilots outside of OSH. That kind of correction certainly goes on among the airshow pilots in the debrief.

    Believe me when I tell you that the tower can screw up, too. The north (contract) tower for runway 9/27 during the Wednesday and Friday airshows remains vividly in my mind. You can be sure that "fraternal correction" was applied then, too. The initial discussion among the pilots was not precisely "fraternal" in spirit, but I am sure that the message was conveyed in a positive manner.

    It has been mentioned elsewhere, but I think it is worth repeating that if weather precludes mass arrivals on Saturday -- or maybe even outside of some time window on Saturday -- then it should NOT be rescheduled. I believe that these are on Saturday to avoid the mass arrival of everyone else on Sunday. rescheduling cannot have any other effect than what we saw on Sunday.
    Chris Mayer
    N424AF
    www.o2cricket.com

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhemxpc View Post
    I LOVE this forum. Honestly. All kinds of opinions and thoughts...although some people seem a little touchy sometimes or take blowing of steam as some kind of threat. OH YES I would love to have a heart to heart talk with some of the people who seem to unaware of the NOTAM or act as though it doesn't apply to them That is NOT vigilanteism. It is fraternal correction. Without such correction, the pilot will continue to make mistakes, thinking that his behavior or action is appropriate. I have spoken thusly to pilots outside of OSH. That kind of correction certainly goes on among the airshow pilots in the debrief.

    Believe me when I tell you that the tower can screw up, too. The north (contract) tower for runway 9/27 during the Wednesday and Friday airshows remains vividly in my mind. You can be sure that "fraternal correction" was applied then, too. The initial discussion among the pilots was not precisely "fraternal" in spirit, but I am sure that the message was conveyed in a positive manner.

    It has been mentioned elsewhere, but I think it is worth repeating that if weather precludes mass arrivals on Saturday -- or maybe even outside of some time window on Saturday -- then it should NOT be rescheduled. I believe that these are on Saturday to avoid the mass arrival of everyone else on Sunday. rescheduling cannot have any other effect than what we saw on Sunday.
    Thank You Chris for explaining in better detail what I was trying to convey. Landing head on into traffic is a pretty big one in my book. Are these pilots that indifferent to the rest of us or do they need some remedial training that will keep them alive longer???
    It amazes me still that that many airplanes can converge upon a single place in 3 days. Shrink that to 1.5 days and all hell breaks loose. Lets hope for clear skies next year.
    Kevin B

  10. #20

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    If a pilot landed the wrong direction, 9 instead of 27, on Sat. why do you think they did? Were they hostile or indifferent, or maybe a new pilot or even foreign? I dont know, I wasnt there Sat, the only video I saw of arrivals was closely spaced and all landing on 9, maybe that was Sun. I was surprised how good the landings were in the gusty wind, everyone holding the nose off and landing on the mains, tailwheel or nosewheel planes alike. if the pilot did go the wrong way, which this is the only source I heard this from, then he likely just made a mistake like any other pilot can. Someone should talk to him, AFTER HE'S HAD A MOMENT TO SETTLE IN, in a friendly way, and point out the error and ask his side of it, what he was thinking or seeing or confused by. What is NOT needed is a group of thugs in a confrontational way. Who should do the talking? Probably an FAA person. How about the perfect pilot who has never made a mistake? I have landed on the wrong runway, not opposite to a lot of traffic. On the way out, I landed on 18 at Norfolk with a good size crosswind. Why? well, some clouds, then 14 is dark asphalt and blends into the grass and 18 is white concrete and I was distracted by a mower who announced he was crossing the runway. On short final I saw where I was but didnt go around and my landing was about a 7. One great thing about Osh is the friendly and cooperative feeling of all, or at least almost all the people there. Don't be in a hurry to throw that away. The best teachers, whether it is a coach, professor , or CFI are the ones that tell you the positive way to do something not emphasize an error.11
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 08-02-2018 at 08:51 AM.

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