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Thread: Oshkosh 2018: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

  1. #31

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    I would add to Chicagorandy's post. Remove the VIP driving privileges from anywhere a tram has to go. These people cause more traffic jams with their stopping in road to chat with friends coming from opposite directions, stopping to look at a plane or just tying up traffic no matter where they go. Same would also go for the vendors and distributors on gators, golf carts and scooters weaving in and out of traffic. And YES, the roads are a mess. I am not sure what arrangement EAA has with the airport, but what would it take to at least fill in the pot holes and small ditches in the roads, or even better, repave entire grounds with just an overlay. Not dig it up and remake. Section of road from ultralight runway to Vintage is in need of major repair.

  2. #32

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    7
    Good:
    1. I was a volunteer from Monday through the Sunday, all day, in the Member Center. Loved every single minute of it and enjoyed helping all the staff, other volunteers, and guests who stopped by.
    2. The two days of overcast skies (Thurs & Friday) were fantastic! It was nice to catch a break from the sun and heat for part of AirVenture.
    3. Overall friendly people everywhere who came out to enjoy aviation. That's what it's all about!

    Bad:
    1. Security check at the main gate every bag, almost every pocket, EVER DAY. I even went through the SAME gal's line with my Volunteer name tag on for the first six days hoping I could finally catch a break, but no luck. Last year (2017) I was probably asked to stop to have my bag searched once every other day. Guess they clamped down on it this year. She seemed only interested in if I "had any alcohol". Was a repeated comment daily. If that's all they care about trying to prevent.... :/ I DO appreciate everyone's safety and security, but with a backpack, a lunch bag, and a camera bag it was a PITA for me to unload all my crap to "find the alcohol" and then pack it all back up on the next table or on the ground just past the security tent.
    2. People walking down the drive paths (anywhere cart and vehicles are allowed) randomly all over the road. I felt bad for the CARTS, regular golf carts, trams, and buses who had to check up constantly for people who just veer off the walking paths and into the roads.
    3. The two guys who managed to get away with riding their little hoverboards around. I saw them a couple times this week down Celebration Way and other places. Absolutely positive they didn't have handicapped stickers on them.
    4. Most non-aviation vendors. The massage chairs can go. Same with the company that was selling workout equipment. Really? I mean, sure, EAA made money selling the booth but c'mon. I could see letting the foot massager and orthopedic-type vendors slide, as anyone who had foot issues from walking the grounds for any great length of time could have been in need of a set of insoles or something.
    5. Letting main aircraft display vendors starting having West Ramp towing their aircraft down Celebration way to stage in Boeing Plaza before the airshow ended. Happens EVERY year. They've got to fight against the mass of people walking against them trying to leave the grounds, not to mention some aircraft with larger wingspans that require objects along the sides of the road to be moved or laid down (further safety issue). And THEN watching a handful of WRR's yell at these innocent attendees to get off the pavement and into the grass and out of their way of the airplane. Really??

    Was talking to a few people about the thought of making the show Sunday to Saturday instead of the current Monday - Sunday. Start the show on the previous Sunday, keep the Wednesday and Saturday night airshows, and let people enjoy the last day in full knowing they don't have to necessarily be to work the next morning. Then let the main aircraft guys depart all day Sunday without the crowd around. They'd have to deal with all the Penske rental trucks and semi tractor/trailers, but eh, lesser of two evils.

  3. #33
    Joda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thellmer View Post
    Was talking to a few people about the thought of making the show Sunday to Saturday instead of the current Monday - Sunday.
    It's all been tried before. The EAA convention has run from Monday through Sunday each year since 2005, and that is the current plan for the foreseeable future.

    From 1977 through 1984 it ran from Saturday through Saturday. It ran from Friday through Friday from '85 through '88.

    In 1970, when they moved the convention from Rockford up to Oshkosh it ran Saturday through Friday. Then in '71 through '73 it ran from Sunday through Saturday.

    In 1974 it ran from Wednesday through Tuesday, and in '75 it went Tuesday through Monday.

    The granddaddy of them all was 1976, when it ran Saturday through the next weekend Sunday. 9 full days!!

    Friday through Thursday was tried from '89 through '92, then Thursday through Wednesday from '93 through '96. It was Wednesday through Tuesday from 1997 through 2000, and then Tuesday through Monday from 2001 through 2004.

    Each of these schedules has pluses and minuses. No matter which one you pick you can find a weakness. All things considered, the current schedule works about as good as any.
    Cheers!

    Joe

  4. #34
    mazdaP5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joda View Post
    It's all been tried before. The EAA convention has run from Monday through Sunday each year since 2005, and that is the current plan for the foreseeable future.

    From 1977 through 1984 it ran from Saturday through Saturday. It ran from Friday through Friday from '85 through '88.

    In 1970, when they moved the convention from Rockford up to Oshkosh it ran Saturday through Friday. Then in '71 through '73 it ran from Sunday through Saturday.

    In 1974 it ran from Wednesday through Tuesday, and in '75 it went Tuesday through Monday.

    The granddaddy of them all was 1976, when it ran Saturday through the next weekend Sunday. 9 full days!!

    Friday through Thursday was tried from '89 through '92, then Thursday through Wednesday from '93 through '96. It was Wednesday through Tuesday from 1997 through 2000, and then Tuesday through Monday from 2001 through 2004.

    Each of these schedules has pluses and minuses. No matter which one you pick you can find a weakness. All things considered, the current schedule works about as good as any.
    I think the closest to a fix would be to eliminate the Wednesday night show, that would put a premium on staying. It would probably also reduce early attendance. It's fine how it is.

  5. #35
    robert l's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyfixer8 View Post
    How is a tram going to go faster ? Has Mr Pelton ever been on one while trying to make its way through a crowd of people that refuse to get out of the way? They are farm tractors. Lucky to get more that 7 MPH from them.
    I couldn't understand why the bus drivers didn't make use of the horn !!! I sure world, and the tractor drivers should have Air horn's !!! People just seems to ignore the busses, golf carts and tractors while they are intent on getting somewhere ! All the drivers did an excellent job of navigating around people, objects and the narrow roads in general !!! Thumbs up for the drivers
    Bob

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by mazdaP5 View Post
    I think the closest to a fix would be to eliminate the Wednesday night show, that would put a premium on staying. It would probably also reduce early attendance. It's fine how it is.
    Aren't there Wednesday and Saturday night shows? That allows EAA to have two "peaks" during one week. I know I wouldn't stay an extra 3-4 days to see a night show, but they are interesting enough I'll hang around through Wednesday evening.

    Honestly, the current schedule is fine. No matter what day you start the show, there will be a rush to get there because "everyone knows" the best deals and most of the showiest* planes will all be there early in the week.

  7. #37
    CarlOrton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mazdaP5 View Post
    I think the closest to a fix would be to eliminate the Wednesday night show, that would put a premium on staying. It would probably also reduce early attendance. It's fine how it is.
    I will readily admit I'm the junior member in terms of consecutive attendance: 14, since 2005.

    I don't think having one less nighttime airshow, or even *any* night airshow will add/subtract from the attendance. Back in 2005 and for awhile, there were no nighttime airshows (or if there were, it was only Saturday). Most folks seemed to fall into one of two camps: Those who were there Sunday thru Wednesday, and those Wednesday thru Sat/Sun.

    There will always be folks who have to split their attendance to make "life" work, be it jobs or semi-tolerant family.

    Carl Orton
    Sonex #1170 / Zenith 750 Cruzer
    http://mykitlog.com/corton

  8. #38
    PaulDow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joda View Post
    It's all been tried before. ...
    While watching TV last night, I searched through the Sport Aviation back issues for this information, only to see Joda already posted the relevant information. (Sigh)
    Oh well, since I already compiled it, here's the details.

    A couple of interesting things I saw was that admission was free for members in the early days, and in 1995 the dues were $35. I know people complain about the commercial aspects of the event, but it sure makes our 2018 $40 dues look real good.

    Year Dates Days Number Days
    Milwaukee
    1953 Sept 12-13 Sat - Sun 2
    1954 Aug 7-8 Sat - Sun 2
    1955 Aug 6-7 Sat - Sun 2
    1956 Aug 3-5 Fri - Sun 3
    1957 Aug 30 - Sept 1 Fri - Sun 3
    1958 Aug 7-10 Thu - Sun 4
    Rockford
    1959 Aug 6-9 Thu - Sun 4
    1960 Aug 3-6 Wed - Sat 4
    1961 Aug 2-6 Wed - Sun 5
    1962 Aug 1-5 Wed - Sun 5
    1963 Jul 30 - Aug 4 Tue - Sun 6
    1964 Aug 4-9 Tue - Sun 6
    1965 Aug 2-7 Mon - Sat 6
    1966 Aug 1-6 Mon - Sat 6
    1967 Jul 30 - Aug 5 Sun - Sat 7
    1968 Jul 28 - Aug 3 Sun - Sat 7
    1969 Jul 27 - Aug 2 Mon - Sat 7
    Oshkosh
    1970 Aug 1-7 Sat - Fri 7
    1971 Auf 1-7 Sun - Sat 7
    1972 Jul 30 - Aug 5 Sun - Sat 7
    1973 Jul 29 - Aug 4 Sun - Sat 7
    1974 Jul 31 - Aug 6 Wed - Tue 7
    1975 Jul 29 - Aug 4 Tue - Mon 7
    1976 Jul 31- Aug 8 Sat - Sun +1 9
    1977 Jul 30 - Aug 6 Sat - Sat 8
    1978 Jul 29 - Aug 5 Sat - Sat 8
    1979 Jul 28 - Aug 4 Sat - Sat 8
    1980 Aug 2- 9 Sat - Sat 8
    1981 Aug 1 - 8 Sat - Sat 8
    1982 Jul 31 - Aug 7 Sat - Sat 8
    1983 Jul 30 - Aug 6 Sat - Sat 8
    1984 Jul 28 - Aug 4 Sat - Sat 8
    1985 Jul 26 - Aug 2 Fri - Fri 8
    1986 Aug 1 - 8 Fri - Fri 8
    1987 Jul 31 - Aug 7 Fri - Fri 8
    1988 Jul 29 - Aug 5 Fri - Fri 8
    1989 Jul 28 - Aug 3 Fri - Thu 7
    1990 Jul 27 - Aug 2 Fri - Thu 7
    1991 Jul 26- Aug 1 Fri - Thu 7
    1992 Jul 31- Aug 6 Fri - Thu 7
    1993 Jul 29 - Aug 4 Thu - Wed 7
    1994 Jul 28 - Aug 3 Thu - Wed 7
    1995 Jul 27 - Aug 2 Thu - Wed 7
    1996 Aug 1 - 7 Thu - Wed 7
    1997 Jul 30 - Aug 5 Wed - Tue 7
    AirVenture Era
    1998 Jul 29 - Aug 4 Wed - Tue 7
    1999 Jul 28 - Aug 3 Wed - Tue 7
    2000 Jul 26 - Aug 1 Wed - Tue 7
    2001 Jul 24 - 30 Tue - Mon 7
    2002 Jul 23 - 29 Tue - Mon 7
    2003 Jul 29 - Aug 4 Tue - Mon 7
    2004 Jul 27 - Aug 2 Tue - Mon 7
    2005 Jul 25 - 31 Mon - Sun 7
    2006 Jul 24 - 30 Mon - Sun 7
    2007 Jul 23 - 30 Mon - Sun 7
    2008 Jul 28- Aug 3 Mon - Sun 7
    2009 Jul 27 - Aug 2 Mon - Sun 7
    2010 Jul 26- Aug 1 Mon - Sun 7
    2011 Jul 25 - 31 Mon - Sun 7
    2012 Jul 23 - 29 Mon - Sun 7
    2013 Jul 29 - Aug 4 Mon - Sun 7
    2014 Jul 28 - Aug 3 Mon - Sun 7
    No August Era
    2015 Jul 20 - 26 Mon - Sun 7
    2016 Jul 25 - 31 Mon - Sun 7
    2017 Jul 24 - 30 Mon - Sun 7
    2018 Jul 23 - 29 Mon - Sun 7
    Last edited by PaulDow; 07-30-2018 at 07:00 PM.

  9. #39

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    Aug 2011
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    ohio
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    42
    I just got home from a week at Oshkosh and I miss it already. Seems awfully quiet here without Bell 47s and other aircraft flying around. The good stuff about the trip could fill a couple of pages, but I'll just mention a few. Camp Scholler gets better every year with all of the improvements being made. I think EAA needs to consider taking steps to increase the area for camping. When I arrived early Saturday afternoon I was amazed how many campers were already there. I was also pleased to see the number of golf cart and other vehicles that were offering rides to people. Remember-no empty seats! Also kudos to EAA for chapter camping. I had a great time attending and camping together with my chapter friends.

    The bad stuff list is a little larger, unfortunately. There were a lot of young kids riding mini bikes and such. I saw one young mini-biker zoom up and down Lindbergh for a couple of days. I also saw one girl driving an ATV with three kids younger than her along for the ride. That seems more dangerous than anything we might have in our backpacks. There are also too many vehicles driving around the congested areas near Boeing Plaza. I saw a car drive past a sign that said No Cars, Golf carts or Gators. I pointed at the sign and said "no cars". He ignored me just like my wife does.
    The prices for food in the camp stores is just too high. $3.25 for a bottle of Pepsi? Next year I will leave the Airventure grounds to make any purchases like that.
    My biggest gripe is about what happened after the Saturday night airshow when everyone was walking back to parking and the campgrounds. A line of about 8 cars decided they needed to leave from near the exhibit buildings and drive through the crowd to go south on Knapp Rd. I was literally pushed out of the way by the bumper of the first car. I guess there must have been some very important people in those cars to be in such a rush. I suggest we find out who they were and make sure they never come back.
    My last gripe has nothing to do with Airventure itself. I just want to say how terrible the roads were south of Oshkosh. The trailer behind my vehicle carrying my golf cart was hammered to pieces during the trip around Chicago on a road I had to pay to drive on! And lastly, not enough soft serve ice cream!!

  10. #40
    robert l's Avatar
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    The good for me was the volunteers, and that started for us Saturday night, the 21st. My previous stop along the way was Merrillville, In. which leaves about a 3 to 3.5 hr. drive the next day. Well, in my infinit wisdom, I told my buddy, it's 5 pm and we are already in Merrillville, what are we going to do for 4 or 5 hrs before bed time ? Well, we could have gotten a good meal, a shower, some tv and good sleep. B U T N O O O O !!! I said, lset get north of Chicago and get a room. North of Chicago I called AAA, how about finding us a room along I 294. No luck, then I tried all the other apps, no dice. So, our only option at that time was to keep driving. We arived at Camp Schollar at 9pm, got checked in and started looking for a camping spot in the rain. 50 yrds. down one of the muddy roads and the Ram 1500, two wheel drive with street tires pulling a vintage pop up camper succumbed to the lack of traction and we were stuck. I walked over to one of the volunteers and they said they would call someone. In a few minutes a guy came and said he would get us out in the morning. The next morning two guys came with a HUGE John Deere tractor but there was no place on the front of the truck so we un hiched the camper, pulled it aside and one of the guys came back with a 4 wheel drive pick up and hooked up the camper. The tractor pulled us out backwards onto solid road. We told the guy with my camper to just find a spot and we would follow. 15th and Butternut is where we ended up, what a great spot. We could see the air show and all the ultralight traffic came right over us. Thank you, Nate, Dan and David, what great help they were and all the while with a smile !
    The bad, we slept in the truck that night, all wet, couldn't let the seats back because the back was full. All this after driving 19 hrs. and almost a thousand miles. More good, the next day it cleared up !
    The ugly, when it got cold, my buddy had this blue think he called a snuggy. Not like any snuggy I've ever seen before, this thing was like a fleece onesie, zipper and all. Not a pretty site.
    Bob

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