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Thread: Eternal debates in aviation...

  1. #21
    So I am not sure if yall are talking about just GA, but in my short time being with aviation, a big one I have came across is Boeing or Airbus? I have heard things such as "If its not Boeing, I am not going."

  2. #22
    steveinindy's Avatar
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    I have heard things such as "If its not Boeing, I am not going."
    Honestly, I'm going to give the 787 a couple of years in service before I set foot on one that's leaving the ground. I love both Boeing and Airbus but I want to see if the durability that Boeing is predicting for that extensive of composite use in a commercial fleet actually pans out. Not to mention I think the 787 is just kind of a vaguely unattractive aircraft.

  3. #23
    KDoersom's Avatar
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    Here is the answer to the flying birds

    http://mythbustersresults.com/episode77

  4. #24
    Matt Gonitzke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenjaminB View Post
    or the pitch or power to control airspeed? Anyone who thinks pitch controls airspeed needs to fly gliders.
    Ok, enlighten me...that contradicts my PPL SEL ground school, 3 CFIIs and their instruction, as well as the half-dozen CFI-Gs I've flown with, as well as my flight experience in both powered aircraft and gliders. You can pitch the Schweizer in your avatar up and hold it in a nose-high attitude, stalled, and you'll still descend, or you can pitch down, watch the airspeed indicator jump, and descend. Or trim a Cessna for 70 kts, and notice that you can climb, fly straight and level, or descend, depending on how much power you are applying.

  5. #25

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    Matt,
    I'm in agreement regarding powered aircraft which is all I've ever flown in, but I think things are a bit different in the glider. Airspeed in a powered aircraft is the combination of thrust and relative wind, but all the glider has is relative wind and his throttle is looking for thermals that can't be turned on and off, same for downdrafts. All they've got is spoilers and hopefully the ability to move out of the thrust drivers they fly through. I'm guessing that you could get some airspeed increase with a climb pitch in a big updraft. Maybe Ben will tell us his secret!

    Joe

  6. #26
    Matt Gonitzke's Avatar
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    Joe,

    It is no different in a glider, as a glider is just an engineless aircraft. For all the glider knows, it is descending through the air as it moves forward. If the air happens to be rising faster than the glider is descending, then it gains altitude relative to the ground. If I'm flying along in a glider and encounter a good thermal, I'll pitch for the mimimum-sink airspeed (I guess that's what you mean by 'climb pitch'?) of the glider to get the most benefit out of the thermal. If I am landing a glider, I will pitch for my approach airspeed and use the spoilers to maintain my glide path towards my aiming point. Pitch is still used to control airspeed. You can guess with reasonable accuracy your airspeed based on your pitch attitude; I was taught this very early on by my instructor when I started flight training, and it has been reinforced by each instructor I've flown with since.

  7. #27

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    Thanks Matt!
    Not having ever flown one, I'm trying to figure out what creates thrust once your off the tow. Sound like it just trading altitude for airspeed and vise-versa like pulling power back to idle and "gliding", gravity is providing the thrust. I guess the biggest difference is the design advantage of the glider with light weight and a big aspect ratio vs a nose heavy engine out "powered" aircraft.

    Joe

  8. #28
    BenjaminB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe LaMantia View Post
    Matt,
    I'm in agreement regarding powered aircraft which is all I've ever flown in, but I think things are a bit different in the glider. Airspeed in a powered aircraft is the combination of thrust and relative wind, but all the glider has is relative wind and his throttle is looking for thermals that can't be turned on and off, same for downdrafts. All they've got is spoilers and hopefully the ability to move out of the thrust drivers they fly through. I'm guessing that you could get some airspeed increase with a climb pitch in a big updraft. Maybe Ben will tell us his secret!

    Joe
    You see, in the gliders, we do have a sort of throttle in the spoilers. Spoilers closed-full throttle, spoilers full open-no throttle. It really is not much different than a powered airplane, you just can't climb at "full throttle," only decrease the descent rate. When flying gliders you learn really fast that the spoilers are a REALLY BAD way to control airspeed on final. I tried that while in primary instruction, and it didn't work very well. And as far as gaining airspeed in a thermal. Yes we do naturally, but we actually try to slow down when we fly into one.

  9. #29
    Matt Gonitzke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenjaminB View Post
    You see, in the gliders, we do have a sort of throttle in the spoilers. Spoilers closed-full throttle, spoilers full open-no throttle. It really is not much different than a powered airplane, you just can't climb at "full throttle," only decrease the descent rate. When flying gliders you learn really fast that the spoilers are a REALLY BAD way to control airspeed on final. I tried that while in primary instruction, and it didn't work very well. And as far as gaining airspeed in a thermal. Yes we do naturally, but we actually try to slow down when we fly into one.
    That's EXACTLY the point I'm trying to make. Pitch controls airspeed...

  10. #30
    Dana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Gonitzke View Post
    That's EXACTLY the point I'm trying to make. Pitch controls airspeed...
    Well, to be strictly correct, it's angle of attack that controls airspeed...

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