Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 56

Thread: Stall in a turn

  1. #21

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    1,205
    Yeah, my first accidental spin is burned in my memory. I was demonstrating slow flight and stalls in my Chief to a female coworker (who was also a new pilot) and suddenly it was in a spin. Fortunately I had started the stall practice at 3500 agl.
    I looked at her and she had no clue. Then I looked at the control yoke and my hand was pulling the yoke hard into my chest.
    After 5 seconds I decided to release the back pressure. Previously, I had purposely hired a spin qualified instructor and did two spin recoveries. My regular instructor in the Cessna 150 never did any spins. But I knew the Chief was spin prone so I got spin instruction even though not required by FAA.

  2. #22

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    1,342
    The good news is that Ron and Bill are both examples that demonstrate that spins below 10,000' AGL are not instant death. An accidental spin at 2000' is recoverable even with a severely surprised pilot. Our GA airplanes are designed and tested to quickly recover from spins.

    It is important to replace fear with training and knowledge. Fear and ignorance is not an effective safety program. Training and knowledge is. Having an hour of spins and acro greatly reduces the length of confusion time before the pilot recognizes the situation and starts recovery control inputs. You may not realize this at the time, and credit luck, but an individual with no familiarity with a situation will generally take much longer to react appropriately and may never figure out what they are seeing and experiencing.

    I will note that every GA aircraft has been spun by factory test pilots. If your factory airplane does not have an "Intentional Spins Prohibited" placard, it will recover from a typical spin with a little help from the pilot. But that pilot will do better if not handicapped with fear and ignorance.

    Which is to say that demonstration of spins should be in the Private Pilot training.

    Best of luck,

    Wes

  3. #23

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Clarklake, MI
    Posts
    2,461
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Berson View Post
    I got spin instruction even though not required by FAA.
    exactly! Anyone is free to seek out training beyond FAA minimum requirements. That applies to any class, category or segment of training. Doesn't mean everyone should have to do it.

    As far as putting on a parachute in something like a Chief and expecting to be able to exit a spinning airplane and deploying the chute, well, good luck with that.

  4. #24

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NW FL
    Posts
    405
    Great discussion. So far, no knows WHY the outside wing of an airplane in a coordinated turn will drop at the stall. (I am told in another thread that there is NO SUCH THING AS A STALL) My post, #28 in the LOC thread describes the conditions for the maneuver. Again: Enter a shallow turn in coordinated flight ailerons neutral. Power off. Maintain altitude with elevator. As airspeed decreases to stall plus about 10 KTS, full aft stick. Accelerated stall. My CFI showed this to me in a J-3. His background was as a contract instructor in WW2. (Embry Riddle in Stearmans)

    At the stall, the J-3 rolled out of the turn and would have gone into a bank in the opposite direction if not stopped with bottom rudder. He briefed me to what would happen and I was ready with the rudder and stopped her wings wings level. Normal stall recovery.

    Since then, I practiced this maneuver in my Champ, Luscombe, Beech, some Cessnas and a few sailplanes. All the same, and not a scary maneuver at all.

    Why does the outside wing drop first?

    Years ago, I landed at a small field north of Columbus, Ga. Met an old gent who told me that he ran a CPT program during WW2 up in NC. Had 75 Luscombe 8D's. Accident rate was high, almost all were when turning base to final. I had an 8A then and looked at the POH at the diagram of the instrument panel. No T&B. Not even an inclinometer.

    Bob

  5. #25

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NW FL
    Posts
    405
    After thought: I have observed that those that are the sloppiest making coordinated turns are Helo pilots. Makes you want to scream when they let the ball (or the yarn on the WS) go way off in a skidding turn.

  6. #26

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Fort Vermilion Alberta
    Posts
    196
    I agree, excellent discussion on a subject covered many times, but like recurrent training is good to re hash. What I notice is how often the lawyers insurance companies and govt are invoked in discussion. None of these entities have anything to do with the creation of lift thrust or drag.
    Jim Rest taught me to fly and Orville Wright taught him and as long as lift works I will fly.

  7. #27

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    1,205
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Dingley View Post
    After thought: I have observed that those that are the sloppiest making coordinated turns are Helo pilots. Makes you want to scream when they let the ball (or the yarn on the WS) go way off in a skidding turn.
    Helicopter pilots don't use the pedals for turns in cruise.

  8. #28

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Clarklake, MI
    Posts
    2,461
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Dingley View Post
    After thought: I have observed that those that are the sloppiest making coordinated turns are Helo pilots. Makes you want to scream when they let the ball (or the yarn on the WS) go way off in a skidding turn.
    While flying helo? Or fixed wing?

  9. #29

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NW FL
    Posts
    405
    Sorry bill, They do power changes in the traffic pattern. Marty, helo drivers mostly fly helos. They pick up more discipline when in airplanes because they are harder to fly.

    Bob

  10. #30

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Wachapreague Va.
    Posts
    247
    Quote Originally Posted by DRGT View Post
    I have never flown this airplane and I don't know its stall/spin characteristics. Further, I don't know any specifics about your flight - e.g. cg location, total weight, etc. My first question - what do you mean you held the nose up a bit? With the elevator or rudder? I assume you were slipping (intentionally?), just before the right wing stalled. At this point, I would really like to know how you positioned the controls. It is obvious the airplane began to skid and spin. My opinion is a good instructor would provide a thorough debrief which would include a step by step of what happened and why.
    I have no opinion on the correct altitude to do spins in a Great Lakes - I don't know the airplane or instructor. I would prefer a little more altitude myself.

    DRGT
    We held the nose up to allow speed to decay instead of dropping into the turn and increasing airspeed. The intent was to show me the classic base to final stall when you overshoot and try to horse it around. As it has been a long time ago I cannot say I remember every detail at this point but I absolutely fly that turn more precisely and with greater care. It really left an impression. Low and slow and push it will cause you to wind up dead. As far as control position is converned I recall being set up with lots of left aileron , not enough left rudder and a fair amount of up elevator. I knew we would stall but expected it to roll left into the turn and spin, instead it snapped over to the right pretty violently and instantly spun. Caught me by surprise.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •