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Thread: Tariffs and the industry

  1. #11
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    Sort of an aside, but most boats, not ships, are still made here in America.
    Even those boats built in the US can be tripped up by the complexities of international politics. There's a shipyard in the Puget Sound that built a new fishing boat (think "Deadliest Catch," not catching crappies on Lake Fitz) that used too much foreign steel in its construction. Because of that, it won't be allowed to fish in US waters. This stems from the ~100-year-old Jones Act.

    Ron Wanttaja

  2. #12

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    Well, Bill, the issue we face isn't exporting a finished product overseas (which is HD's issue), but using raw materials coming in, namely aluminum.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  3. #13
    cub builder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Giger View Post
    Well, Bill, the issue we face isn't exporting a finished product overseas (which is HD's issue), but using raw materials coming in, namely aluminum.
    Sheet aluminum would be a finished product. As I alluded previously, I don't know that we are building with inexpensive foreign aluminum. I also don't know that we aren't. That would be a good question for Aircraft Spruce to answer. But I do know from working in industry that imported metals often times didn't meet spec, so my expectation is that Aircraft suppliers are selling primarily US manufactured Aluminum and steel.

    I'm not a fan of tariffs and trade wars, but the reason they are being implemented is that we have been playing on an uphill field all along. It's OK for other countries to restrict US manufactured items, but it's not OK for us to restrict their sales here? Once the field is leveled to where we can sell as well as buy, the tariffs will go away. In the mean time, it's the only way to get our trading partners that don't want to play nicely, to play. Nobody wins in the short run, but in the long run, it may be what's needed to level the field. I'd like to think I'm looking at what's good for the country in the long haul rather than what's good for me today. I'll be happy to pay extra and buy American while the governments spend some time posturing and pounding their chests until they reach an agreement.

    HD is in a tight spot, but by moving a part of their manufacturing overseas and laying off folks here, they risk loosing a lot of their core support at home. It's a no win situation for them. They may have to do some serious spin control to keep their US base while they are trying very hard to protect 16% of their sales impacted by European tariffs. Of course HD is also assuming the tariffs will be in place for a long time. The president clearly doesn't think that will be the case, but is willing to make it happen to get the partners to the negotiating table if necessary.
    Last edited by cub builder; 06-26-2018 at 04:16 PM.

  4. #14

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    I'll have to dig into it, but I suspect the good people at Alcoa buy raw billets of aluminum and then do the fine metallurgy themselves, whether making ducting sheets, metal for cans, or more exacting alloys and hardness ratings. So it's really unclear how tariffs would be applied, and by how much, to predict an impact.

    Not to deny that I have more than a couple sheets of "mystery metal" in my airplane where it's not structural, mind you. The aviation section at Lowe's sells sheets of aluminum and steel by gauge and a rough stab at quality only.

    As to HD, they're doing exactly what foreign car manufacturers learned a long time ago - the surest way to avoid a tariff is to build it in the country one would normally import to. Here in Alabama we have just about every automobile company, foreign and domestic, running factories.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  5. #15
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    GM pretty much told Trump to knock it off. The tariffs aren't helping them.

  6. #16

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    As I'm a millwright at United States Steel in Portage IN, theses tariffs are needed simply for some steel companies in the United States to survive. We don't produce aluminum all flat rolled steel. The problem comes from top management in these large companies not putting the PROFITS made by the company back into the mills by maintaining and upgrading equipment and they fill their pockets with large bonuses by not spending money on the plants. Union steelworkers at United States Steel and Arcelor Mittal have been working for over 4 years without raises while upper management takes multi million dollar bonuses. It's hopeful management will do the right thing and invest in the plants when the company turns profitable. These tarriffs may raise prices but in my opinion are needed simply for us mills to survive. If I have to pay a couple of thousand more on the price of a new vehicle or a vans kit I'm willing to do that.

  7. #17
    Jim Heffelfinger's Avatar
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    This from Belite........... extracted from their most recent notice......
    "Our next price raise of the year will be July 9th, where the Airframe kit will raise to $12,495 from the current $11,995.

    We've already seen the recent 5-year high price of raw aluminum impacting our sourcing. Our recent buy of aluminum spars was about 35% higher than the prior purchase! Ouch!

    Even so, Chipper is by far the best two place utility aircraft value in the kit plane market.

    If you want to beat the next price increase and are ready to start building this summer or fall, let us know now. We have kits available to ship in July. See pricing and what's included.

    Remember, a deposit of $500 holds your kit pricing through the end of this year. "

  8. #18
    Jim Heffelfinger's Avatar
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    I am very pleased with the contributors sharing their experiences, expertise and opinion in a civil manner. We all know that trade wars are globally destabilizing and the markets are showing that. As a consumer and observer I hope that this "shake up" is short.

  9. #19
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    You better top to your Union reps. They think some aspects of the tariffs, especially not exempting Canada is hurting them. Not saying that tariffs can't be helpful, but Trump is going all willy nilly on them.

    https://www.usw.org/news/media-cente...t-from-tariffs

  10. #20
    cub builder's Avatar
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    Of course you know the whole tariff thing is about getting our trade "partners" to open their markets to our products so we can trade on a even playing field. Of course they love restricting their markets to our goods while our markets have been open to them. As soon as they agree to open their markets to us, our markets will be open to them and the tariffs will cease to exist. In the mean time, everyone pays more, both here and abroad. So who gets to collect the tariff funds, and where does that money go? As for a $500 price increase on a $12K kit, that seems pretty reasonable to me. Especially if the current "trade war" eventually clears the tariffs and opens the markets on both sides.

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