Unwelcome warbird?

[Mayhemxpc]

My question is about the decisions whether an airplane is allowed to park in the warbirds area or not.

Today, I flew my plane into Dulles/KIAD to participate in the National Air and Space Museum's "Innovations in Flight" day. I was parked next to a recently restored HU-16 Grumman Albatross, owned by "Seaplanes Crossing" an aviation history 501(3)c. It is a beautiful restoration and was quite popular with the visitors. I asked the PIC if he would be bringing it to OSH this year and if so where he would be parking it. He told me that he had asked to park it at Warbirds, but was refused because it was not panted in military colors! Instead, he will park it a Vintage -- and vintage has been very welcoming to him.

It seems to me that I have seen more than enough "warbirds" painted in civilian colors parked with the warbirds area. Of course there are also the airplanes where, although that airframe was never in military service, there were models strongly similar to it that were in military service and are allowed in if that aircraft is painted with a military appearing paint scheme (E.g., Navions of different model years.) I am pretty sure last year I saw a couple of planes where the airplane was in civilian colors, but since airplanes of that type served in some foreign country's military, there were allowed in too. (E.g., IAR's)

Given that liberality, I wonder why the operators of this particular HU-16 were told that the plane could not park in Warbirds unless it had a military paint scheme. (I am sure the crew will have a great time with the Vintage folks.)

[FlyingRon]

The only way you can determine if a Navion was a legit L-17 is to check the serial number against the military purchase records. They were pretty much stock.

I've seen very laughable Navion military paint jobs (forget the ones for people like the Marines and Navy who I don't think ever had them) but there was one that was painted up as [sic] "Ar Farce One" a few years back in Warbirds. I thought that as long as your model was used by some military anywhere you were OK (which explains the RVs there since the Nigerian airforce or some such uses them).

[Bill Greenwood]

I think the Albatross owner was mistaken or more likely feeding you a line, unless it was a case of running out of parking space rof the larger planes i warbirds. I think he probably had some grievance against warbird division of EAA. There are many planes that were legitimate types in former military useage, that dont have military paint,. There are some T-6s, some T-34s, and even a few Mustangs that had civilian paint, etc. On the other hand, puting a miltary paint scheme on a plane does not make it a warbird.
I dont see why it is such a big issue for some people.

[Mayhemxpc]

Ron: For the early model Navions, you are correct. (But you are truly the expert on that.) Discussing the differences between airplanes that actually had military service and those dressed up like one (e.g. C-172 in USAF paint) was not my point. That is a separate gripe...(If you want to be a re-enactor, fine. Make it clear you are a re-enactor and get your kit straight -- markings, too! My personal opinion? If you want to park in Warbirds you should be making a statement that you are honoring the brave men (and women/WASPS) that flew those planes in combat. Getting the markings right is important to that. My opinion only and if I push it too much I might be asked to park in Vintage myself.

Bill: I don't know about feeding a line. He seemed pretty sincere. This will be their first trip to AirVenture and they wanted to do it right. The team spent an awful lot of time and other re$ource$ putting the plane together. It could be that there was no room on the ramp for the big plane, but that was not what was relayed to me. All about paint...and I asked some very probing questions about that. Anyway, I am sure that Ron's people will appreciate them!

[FlyingRon]

Well, most of the exhibit area in Warbirds or Vintage have no "ramp" area. All we have is grass (we have a few former roads that can pass for hard surface but mostly they're used as taxiways).

We've never turned away a legal-for-vintage aircraft regardless of size. We've parked Howard 500's and all manners of the Grumman flying boats up to the Albatross. Parked more than a few DC-3's as well. We even convinced the Snowbirds to bring one of their Tudor jets down and park with us.

[Floatsflyer]

We even convinced the Snowbirds to bring one of their Tudor jets down and park with us.

I saw that, one of the coolest sights ever at Osh. I wonder if the USAF, US Navy would be as accomodating and easy going as the RCAF?

[TedK]

I think the Albatross owner was mistaken or more likely feeding you a line, unless it was a case of running out of parking space rof the larger planes i warbirds. I think he probably had some grievance against warbird division of EAA. There are many planes that were legitimate types in former military useage, that dont have military paint,. There are some T-6s, some T-34s, and even a few Mustangs that had civilian paint, etc. On the other hand, puting a miltary paint scheme on a plane does not make it a warbird.
I dont see why it is such a big issue for some people.

WELCOMED WARBIRD

No we weren’t feeding Chris or Flying Ron a line....at least not on the WB parking. (Grin)

I don’t know if Chris’ posting here made a difference but the next time we talked with Warbirds we got a much more welcoming answer. We have no grievance with Warbirds and they have always been very helpful. We had hoped to arrive on Sunday but, as happens, we are now delayed and planning to arrive Thursday.

Come on over and see an ex-Navy HU-16C Albatross. We will be the big White and Blue airplane in a sea of Camo and polished aluminum. Come chat with us about out plan to recreate the first airborne crossing of the Atlantic next May. https://www.facebook.com/SeaplaneCrossings/

Ted

EAA
Warbirds
Vintage

[TedK]

REALLY WELCOMED WARBIRD

Unfoetunately we didn’t get to OSH till after Thursday’s airshow but we had absolutely superb hosting in Warbirds. Thank you to all the WB Volunteers that got us parked, registered, over to WB Camping, and just plain made to feel like royal guests.

THANKS!

To paraphrase Arnold, “We’ll be back!”

The crew of Pegasus
Grumman HU-16 Albatross N1955G

[FlyingRon]

It's a bit late now, but if you ever have a gripe or question about Warbirds, I'd suggest emailing or calling their head Connie Bowlin. I had a nice long conversation with her on the phone last year over an issue that wasn't even a warbird issue (it was a general EAA issue and since she also serves on the EAA board I had reached out to her). She's done a lot of good stuff up there and she's willing to have a friendly conversation.

(Also got a nice callback from Michael Goulian on the IAC side).