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Thread: Airdrome Aeroplanes Nieuport 17

  1. #171
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    Wings on temporarily. However, I have decided the wing incidence needs to be reduced. The plan dimensions end up with 4 degrees at spar centerlines. That seems way too much. After discussing with Robert Basley, I plan to reduce the incidence measurement down to about 1 degree. Unfortunately, that requires. replacing some of the vertical fuselage members. However, better to fix now tha after it is giving problems flying.

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    Dale
    Last edited by bookmaker; 05-09-2018 at 10:17 AM.
    Dale Cavin
    Florida Panhandle
    Current Project: Airdrome Aeroplanes Full Size Nieuport 17

  2. #172
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    Yesterday we bit the bullet and started the modifications to lower the wing incidence. The process was to lower the fuselage tail to bring the jigged angle from 4 degrees to 1.2 degrees that Robert says he uses on the new versions. The first shot shows how much we lowered the tail support.

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    Redrilling the forward vertical fuselage member for the carry through attachment.

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    New fuselage angle. The wing spars are horizontal.

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    Dale
    Dale Cavin
    Florida Panhandle
    Current Project: Airdrome Aeroplanes Full Size Nieuport 17

  3. #173

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    Now that's ingenuity.

    Instead of tilting the wings, you tilted the fuselage. Neat.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  4. #174
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    Work and family have kept me away from this build, but it has not gone untouched.

    The vertical fuselage members that I removed have either been replaced or modified for the new lower wing position. The forward cabanes have been shortened and the angle at the top adjusted for the new incidence.

    What remains refitting the wings is to drill the final holes in one of the vertical members that are now unable to be drilled by normal methods. I have had to make a drill guide for a smaller bit, then I can remove the members and open the holes to the required size. That will hopefully happen in the next few days.

    In the mean time, Rose and I brought the left lower wing back to the house to replace the lead/lag cables. They just did not suit me with their tension. All better now. While it was at home, we made cable separators and installed them on all internal cables in the wings.

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    As is my normal practice, I changed the location of the inner attachment of the rear landing wires. The plan has them attaching to the rear of the rear cabane connecting plates. This puts the eyebolts just above and ahead of the pilot's forehead. I wasn't keen on that idea. The originals came from under the rear spar, so I did the best I could to locate them in that approx. location - the upper outer side of the rear cabanes. To take the stress from pulling the cabanes apart, I fabricated a tie strap between the cabanes. We had to be careful the cables were low enough to clear the aileron wishbones at full throw. They do.

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    Once I get the final attachments completed for the carry through tubes, we will square up the wings, shim where required and make final attachments.

    Then the outer V struts!
    Dale Cavin
    Florida Panhandle
    Current Project: Airdrome Aeroplanes Full Size Nieuport 17

  5. #175
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    One of my recent distractions:

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    My wife's Christmas present to me was a 1 hour Introduction to Float Plane lesson in Seattle, WA. We went there in June to visit my son and his wife to be, so I cashed in my lesson. Wow, that was great. I did 6 water takeoff/ landings including one glassy water landing. step taxiing, including turns and general float plane operations.

    Getting my float plane certificate is on my bucket list. I really have no use for it, but it will just be great to work toward it.

    No, I will not put floats on the Nieuport.

    Dale
    Dale Cavin
    Florida Panhandle
    Current Project: Airdrome Aeroplanes Full Size Nieuport 17

  6. #176

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    The landing wire mounts are pretty sweet.

    It's probably a bit of over-building, but one I fully understand and appreciate.

    Now I am going to preach to you rigging, since you're nearing that stage. It's great the leading edges aren't on now; that will help a lot.

    Rigging is EVERYTHING. As you know, I spent about two months (off and on) and rolls of wire on it before I got it right; it has made all the difference, I believe.

    For all the quirks of my aircraft, she's rock solid in the air; the ability to fly hands free at cruise (in smooth air), easily coordinate turns, and straight-forward-no-surprises stall characteristics are all up to having the rigging as close to perfect as I can get it. Lord knows it's not my superior piloting abilities.

    One the cabanes are where you want them and locked in, mount those wings, put her in flying posture,* get out the levels, and start the process. I used little spirit levels and two sided tape on two spots on the spars, and one on the compression tubes.

    The goal is to get all the wires about the same tightness with the same cranking of the turnbuckles. Robert likes two threads showing on either end. I have mine to where the threads just disappear into the barrels. It doesn't matter, but if they're all in the same position things get a lot easier down the line if one has to take the wings off and put them back on!

    Also, I learned that rigging the landing wires first, to where the upper wing is pulled up level (and the washout in the lower wings is established), and then bringing the flying wires tight to them saved a lot of time and got me the results I wanted. Chasing down one wire only to find it changed another is a real bummer. Don't be afraid to just throw your hands up, cut them, and start over. Most of my time wasted was doing just that....trying to make a bad set of wires work.

    Oh, and those center wires over the fuselage (if you have any left) are dead last to be done. Those rascals can throw a wrench in the whole process if they're done first.

    The key here is consistency. If the left wing spars have the bubbles just touching on the inside (towards the fuselage) line, that's actually fine, as long as the ones on the right are the same, with the bubble touching the inside (towards the fuselage) line as well. Symmetry is King. Don't chase perfection too far; as long as the wings are all in agreement with each other she'll fly true.

    * Here's a funny thing - if you prop the tail up to where one is a bit nose low and rig level to it, guess how the plane will tend to fly? I picked a spot at the side of the fuselage right at the cockpit as my datum for level. ON ONE SIDE. Pick datum points and keep them. One on the side for long level and one spot (I used the center of the upper engine mount horizontal rail) for sideways level.
    Last edited by Frank Giger; 07-12-2018 at 05:50 PM.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  7. #177
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    Thanks for the heads up on the rigging, Frank. I agree entirely.

    As for the leading edges, the wing structures are completed. I will not be adding the aluminum sheet per the kit. That is why there are the false ribs.

    The key to my next project is getting the wings all squared up so that I can fabricate the V struts as once they are attached, the relationship of the upper and lower wings is fixed. Then set the cables.

    Dale
    Dale Cavin
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    Current Project: Airdrome Aeroplanes Full Size Nieuport 17

  8. #178

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    Yep.

    The trick here is to get everything close - fuselage in the right position, top wing leveled, and bottom wing with that 2.5 degree up slope, and measure the rear vertical using a plumb bob on one side.

    Cut, cope, and place it. Bear in mind Robert is very "gooder enough" on this, and it may not be perfectly vertical, though you've paid close enough attention to where it might be. Plus you've got those wickedly clever clampy mount thingies that go around the compression strut, so there's some wiggle room.

    This is your datum piece.

    Get a piece of 1x2 that is longer than you'll need. Round one end of it. Bolt it to the bottom of the strut mount (or, if you're skilled, clamp it), rotate it to where it hits the mark at the front of the compression strut (or, rather, fits into your clampy thing), mark, cut it, and check for fit. This is the template for the crushed tube or wood for the forward strut. Marking the angle is easy - just run a sharpie across the top of the strut mount across the wood. You can use this for the coping angle on the actual piece on both ends!

    Make a jig to make the strut assembly. Execute the build. Check for fit.

    Now, without measuring the other side on the aircraft, duplicate it. You want them to be identical, and if you monkey with measuring the other side or make them independent of one another they won't be.

    It was really hard for me to do this! I wanted to double and triple check everything at this point.

    If they don't both line up, check your wing supports. I was about to wish I had hair to pull out when they didn't in my build, only to figure out that the reason they weren't playing nice was my rope hanging system was great for the upper wing, but my plastic lawn chair back prop for the lower one on the other side wasn't - it was actually pulling the wing forward from being fully seated.

    Yes, I was lucky in that the lower wing that wasn't fully seated was on the side I didn't measure (but was good on the side I did).

    Now with both in place, bolted at the bottom and clamped at the top, check the rear strut and do a little dance when a tiny nudge on the second one makes it perfectly vertical and hitting the compression strut at the same point as on the other wing.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  9. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by bookmaker View Post
    One of my recent distractions:

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    My wife's Christmas present to me was a 1 hour Introduction to Float Plane lesson in Seattle, WA. We went there in June to visit my son and his wife to be, so I cashed in my lesson. Wow, that was great. I did 6 water takeoff/ landings including one glassy water landing. step taxiing, including turns and general float plane operations.

    Getting my float plane certificate is on my bucket list. I really have no use for it, but it will just be great to work toward it.

    No, I will not put floats on the Nieuport.

    Dale
    Sweet, sweet, sweet! Most fun flying you'll ever do. Hmmmm...floats, even amphibs on the Nieuport. Jennies had a mono float and outriggers under the bottom wing. If you go to Osh, check out the Micro Mong at the seaplane base.

  10. #180
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    Yes, Floats it was a blast. Interesting having to add pump the water out of the floats on the walk around.
    Last edited by bookmaker; 07-12-2018 at 07:59 PM.
    Dale Cavin
    Florida Panhandle
    Current Project: Airdrome Aeroplanes Full Size Nieuport 17

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