Very Histoic Days in March

[Bill Greenwood]

Yesterday March 5 was a very historic day in aviation and warbirds in particular. And with both DUNKIRK and DARKEST HOURS, having just won Academy Awards it is current. The 5, 1936th first flight of the prototype of the Spitifire, by Mutt Summers and the Supermarine factory at Eastleigh on the south coast of England. It came just in time to allow England to meet the German threat three years later, with the ME109, etc. Eventually over 23,000 Spitfires would be built, including as a carrier fighter. Some even served in Korea. Speed increased 75mph, armament included 20 mm cannons and special models were superb photo recon planes reaching to 50,000 ft and with a max dive speed to .92 Mach, higher than an early Lear. The first Me 262 shot down was by a Spitfireand they fought from the first to the last day of the war, and all over the world. Unllke some other combat planes it is both beautiful and easy to fly. Its only real disadvantage was short range, but they developed drop tanks. A derivative, the Spiteifull had 4 20mm cannons, 2300 horsepower and 492 mph top speed.

Today, March 6 is also a day which has left a mark. For those of you unlucky enough to have been born somewhere up north, and may not know, it is the climax of the battle of the Alamo in 1836. In brief, Mexico had invited settlers . but began to govern as a dictatorship. It came to a head at a old mission fort in San Antonio. Gen Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna had a real army of about 4000 men, and a uniform and horse and an ego to match anyone. The Texans,had 182 men, led by William Travis and with larger than life Davey Crockett and Jim Bowie, famous for the knife of that name. After 13 days they finally broke through the walls the fort fell. Santa Anna called it a small affair, but the Texans had taken out almost half his army with 1582 killed. Gen Cos said, "we brought 700 of the finest calvary and we left 660 of them dead on the ground". Six weeks later at San Jacinto outside Houston, about 800 Texans overwhelmed the army of about 1200 and Texas was free. Amazingly they let Santa Anna live.
Letters survive from Travis so we know that the 182 men chose to fight, and chose that time and place to be worth their lives. And for their sacrifice the immense wealth and power of Texas is know U S. One should visit both sites particularly the Alamo.

[waltermitty]

Remember the Alamo! Remember Goliad!

[Floatsflyer]

Yesterday March 5 was a very historic day in aviation and warbirds in particular. And with both DUNKIRK and DARKEST HOURS, having just won Academy Awards it is current. The 5, 1938th first flight of the prototype of the Spitifire, by Mutt Summers and the Supermarine factory at Eastleigh on the south coast of England. It came just in time to allow England to meet the German threat two years later, with the ME109, etc. Eventually over 23,000 Spitfires would be built, including as a carrier fighter. Some even served in Korea. Speed increased 75mph, armament included 20 mm cannons and special models were superb photo recon planes reaching to 50,000 ft and with a max dive speed to .92 Mach, higher than an early Lear. The first Me 262 shot down was by a Spitfireand they fought from the first to the last day of the war, and all over the world. Unllke some other combat planes it is both beautiful and easy to fly. Its only real disadvantage was short range, but they developed drop tanks. A derivative, the Spiteifull had 4 20mm cannons, 2300 horsepower and 492 mph top speed.

By coincidence my uncle sent this to me this morning. A short film on a highly entertaining and compelling story of one man and his Spitfire told 65years later.

https://youtu.be/ie3SrjLlcUY

[Bill Greenwood]

The film of Spitfire P RU 944 is interesting, but the forced landing with the gear up was avoidable if his explanation is correct. He says he accidentally snagged the CO2 cartridge which is the back up emergency gear system and caused it to fire with the gear lever up thus pressurizing the system and locking the gear up. But this was foreseen by the RAF and there is a procedure right there on page 38 of the Pilots Notes. "If the CO2 cylinder has been accidentally discharged with the selector lever in the up position, the undercarriage will not lower unless the pipeline from the cylinder is broken, either by hand or by means of the crowbar." All the pilot had to do was take the crowbar out of the door catch and pry the very thin tube till it breaks and lets the CO2 pressure out then lower the gear as normal. I am surprised he didnt know this or wasn't told to try it over the radio when back at base. Perhaps he didnt know what the problem was or maybe the U S pilots weren't as familiar with the system.

[rwanttaja]

The film of Spitfire P RU 944 is interesting, but the forced landing with the gear up was avoidable if his explanation is correct. He says he accidentally snagged the CO2 cartridge which is the back up emergency gear system and caused it to fire with the gear lever up thus pressurizing the system and locking the gear up. But this was foreseen by the RAF and there is a procedure right there on page 38 of the Pilots Notes. "If the CO2 cylinder has been accidentally discharged with the selector lever in the up position, the undercarriage will not lower unless the pipeline from the cylinder is broken, either by hand or by means of the crowbar." All the pilot had to do was take the crowbar out of the door catch and pry the very thin tube till it breaks and lets the CO2 pressure out then lower the gear as normal. I am surprised he didnt know this or wasn't told to try it over the radio when back at base. Perhaps he didnt know what the problem was or maybe the U S pilots weren't as familiar with the system.

Nice insight, Bill...thanks!

I'm guessing it was probably related to little or no transition training. Nowadays, you can's switch from a 150 to a 172 without a checkout and getting grilled over the systems and numbers, but back then it was much different.

Ron Wanttaja

[Floatsflyer]

The film of Spitfire P RU 944 is interesting, but the forced landing with the gear up was avoidable if his explanation is correct. He says he accidentally snagged the CO2 cartridge which is the back up emergency gear system and caused it to fire with the gear lever up thus pressurizing the system and locking the gear up. But this was foreseen by the RAF and there is a procedure right there on page 38 of the Pilots Notes. "If the CO2 cylinder has been accidentally discharged with the selector lever in the up position, the undercarriage will not lower unless the pipeline from the cylinder is broken, either by hand or by means of the crowbar." All the pilot had to do was take the crowbar out of the door catch and pry the very thin tube till it breaks and lets the CO2 pressure out then lower the gear as normal. I am surprised he didnt know this or wasn't told to try it over the radio when back at base. Perhaps he didnt know what the problem was or maybe the U S pilots weren't as familiar with the system.

First of all, it takes a lot of audacity on your part Bill to make accusations and pass judgements about a complete stranger's actions( that you did not witness)in a fighter aircraft during a war and which occurred 74 years ago.

Secondly, if you really watched this film in it's entirety or more to the point absorbed what was being said, you would have heard the pilot state exactly what happened with the CO2 bottle, why it happened and the fact that he did try to use the crowbar to correct the situation. So I don't know what you're talking about. That conversation starts at 9:10 in.

[Bill Greenwood]

We agree on one thing, that you dont understand the systems. I am not a WWII pilot or any fighter pilot, but I am familiar with the systems in a Spitfire and have probably read that manual 50 times, but just to be sure I pulled out the manual, ie Pilot Notes for the Mk IX, XI , XVI. and quoted directly from that paragraph which is pretty clear. If you have inadvertently fired the CO 2 cartridge with the gear up, then the gear lever will not move against that pressure, therefore you cant lower the gear since you cant swing the gear lever down. The gear is hydraulic and the only way to lower it is to have the gear lever down. Now the pilot does say he tried using the crowbar, BUT HE WAS TRYING TO PRY THE GEAR LEVER DOWN. The tube or pipe from the CO 2 cartridge is small, perhaps about like a cocktail straw. It could easily have been broken by using the crowbar, JUST LIKE THE PILOT NOTES SAY. Then the extra pressure holding the gear up would have been released and he could have swung the gear lever down. It would have locked into place since he had hydraulic pressure or might even free fall into place if hydraulics were out. I am a pretty good reader.,those Notes are succinct and not wordy, a 5x7 booklet., Are the Pilot Notes also " a lot of audacity"? Note I have never ditched a Spitfire, but I can tell you that is says, "ditching qualities are known to be very poor." A fine point, its not a CO 2 bottle rather a small cartridge about like a life vest inflator. And I have seen the film in entirety several times.

[Bill Greenwood]

Now he may not have known what was wrong, he may not have heard the CO 2 cartridge fire in flight, thus he didnt know to break the line to release the pressure. There is no gauge for gear system pressure like there is for air pressure which runs everything but the gear. Its a little hard to see how his headphone card would have snagged the lever enough to move it 180 degrees , but who knows for sure. The lever is farliy well protected on the right sidewall and fits in a sort of bracket to secure it and would have to be moved forward and past 90* all the way down to puncture the seal and release the pressure, a small movement would not do it and as soon as the lever moved a bit the cord should slip free..I am not certain where a WWII headset cord plugs in, but I'd guess it is not on the right side, not near the gear lever or the CO2 release. In normal operation, the gear lever must be moved fully up for a few seconds to take the weight off the pins, a spot of negative g. If you dont do this or if you are pulling g the lever wants to jam. He probably knew this, but had come back from a long mission at high alt so could this have had some effect? He seems to have made a very good belly landing. Who really knows.