Flight Review

[DaleB]

If that is correct, I am still of the opinion that it should be administered by an impartial/unbiased 3rd party.

Your opinion is noted, and of course you're free to pick an impartial and unbiased third party to do your instruction and flight reviews. Of course if you pay them, it could be construed as affecting that impartiality.

For the rest of the world, but the words "relative", "spouse", "son", "daughter", "family" appear nowhere in Part 61. There is nothing in the regs that prevent a qualified flight instructor from providing instruction, endorsements or flight reviews for anyone including friends or family members. If you believe otherwise, you can certainly read and search through the regs yourself and see if you can find something that supports your opinion. I couldn't.

[SkyFlyerPilot]

Read CFR 61.195. I find no limitations about working with family members. As a mater of fact I would consider your "best buddy" CFI similar to a family member. Any CFI can shortcut the system. It happens more than we would like unfortunately. If a CFI shortcuts the training/evaluation and signs the endorsement, it doesn't do the pilot any faver in the long run. I once had a student (and long time friend) that needed an IPC. He was in his 70's. At over 60 hours towards the IPC, in his own plan, I told him it wasn't going to happen unless he met or exceeded the standards. He commented that he was very good with the autopilot and asked me if I would sign him off. I asked in return, "Do you want me to burn my CFI certificate?" He got the message.
Again, any CFI or DPE can shortcut the system but at what cost to the recipient of the endorsement.

I also agreed that a Flight Review is not a test. It is only a observation that the pilot is still safe and makes good decisions. The pilot cannot fail a Flight Review. It's up to the CFI to put his/her certificate on the line with an endorsement.

[martymayes]

Taking Floats' assertion to the extreme

Then you shouldn't use an AME you have a relationship with, should not have a relative do an annual on your plane and on and on. If the FAA didn't think people were trustworthy and responsible, they would not be able to issue any certificates!

And yes, my son is a CFII; and, no, I've never used him for a flight review; he's always on the road, but that's the only reason.

I hope for the sake of you both, the opportunity to do that comes up soon. Nothing like sharing a flight on that level with a family member!

[Bill Berson]

If the CFI doesn't sign the logbook, then the pilot "failed" that review. (Seems to me)

[martymayes]

If the CFI doesn't sign the logbook, then the pilot "failed" that review. (Seems to me)

CFI should always sign logbook, Options are 1) successful completion of flight review, or; 2) Instructional flight

A pilot may need 1-10 (or more) instructional flights before successfully completing the flight review, just depends on circumstances.

[Frank Giger]

LOL.

You have raised a smart kid.

"I am not going to bust my dad in a flight review, so lemme come up with a reason not to have the chance."

One can't "fail" a flight review, one can only be refused a sign off. It seems like semantics, but it's not. If one busts a check ride, there are consequences. It's recorded, and the pilot's certification is in jeopardy.

We had a long inactive pilot attempt to become current by jumping right back into a flight review. He had a lot more rust than he thought, and the CFI logged it as flight training, but no flight review verbiage. The pilot agreed with the assessment, and a couple more hours were all that were needed.

Of course the "work around" is to get the CFI to log a busted flight review as training with the FAA, do some online classes, attend a seminar, and be signed off via the FAST program.

Frank "I'm not saying it's right, just legal" Giger

[Joda]

If the CFI doesn't sign the logbook, then the pilot "failed" that review. (Seems to me)

Marty is correct. The flight instructor is required to make and sign a logbook entry for any flight in which flight instruction is given. That flight may have started out to be a flight review, but may end up being just dual instruction. More flights may be necessary before the instructor feels comfortable in making the flight review endorsement. However, nowhere will a flight instructor ever make a logbook entry stating that a pilot "failed" a flight review. (At least they shouldn't, and if they do they are not doing things properly.) There is no "failure" mode unless the customer fails to show up for any additional instruction the instructor feels may be necessary. And even then there would be no record of the "failure". The flight review would simply be incomplete.

[Floatsflyer]

Taking Floats' assertion to the extreme, I'd venture that you'd have to find a new CFI every 2 years because the prior CFI could be said to have some type of continuing relation, which might lead to bias.

Carl, let's not muddy the waters and get carried away with ridiculous notions. The OP was ONLY referencing blood relatives as flight reviewers, NOT friends, flying club members, diaper delivery guys, baristas or anybody else.

[Floatsflyer]

Your opinion is noted, and of course you're free to pick an impartial and unbiased third party to do your instruction and flight reviews. Of course if you pay them, it could be construed as affecting that impartiality.

For the rest of the world, but the words "relative", "spouse", "son", "daughter", "family" appear nowhere in Part 61. There is nothing in the regs that prevent a qualified flight instructor from providing instruction, endorsements or flight reviews for anyone including friends or family members. If you believe otherwise, you can certainly read and search through the regs yourself and see if you can find something that supports your opinion. I couldn't.

Yes, as you noted and as I've been saying all along, it is MY OPINION. An opinion is an expression of thought or of an idea. It is NOT a statement of fact requiring evidence based support or is it a belief. An OPINION does not require "something that supports(it)." So stop wasting your time searching the regs trying to disprove a point that I am NOT making!!! Go do something else that will improve the human race.

[Bill Berson]

If you need to take a review a second time by law, then you "failed" to pass that review the first time. (as I see it)
(I know how it works)

It would be possible to require a review that doesn't require any pass/not pass approval signature.
Just: "review completed this date".
Reviews were not required when I got my certificate. Back then there was about 800,000 pilots.
Now 500,000 or something. Active pilots probably 100,000. Some aircraft are hard to get reviews: Single seat, odd type, etc.
Other pilots are going to ultralights for no review. I know several that went to ultralight.