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Thread: Curmudgeon At Twelve O'Clock!

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vision401 View Post
    base stays the same. I suggest 1/4 to 1/2 mile per A/C.
    the AC specifies a maximum?

  2. #12

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    Here's one of my traffic pattern experiences: I was giving a FR to a guy, we were on downwind and a plane was on a ~1/2 mile final. So at the 45 point were I thought we would be turning, we kept going on, and on and on. Finally, I would estimate we turned on what was a ~3 mi final.

    In de-brief I asked the pilot why he extended his downwind and he says "That guy in front of my flew such a large pattern I had no choice!"

    Humm....I think in that case, and many cases, pilots just don't know how to space behind other traffic in the pattern. It can be difficult and confusing if you're not out doing it on a regular basis.

    Probably the biggest violation in the pattern is taking off, climbing to 500' AGL and wracking over into a crosswind turn. I guess it's been done that way for 100 yrs despite the fact it's contrary to current guidance.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by martymayes View Post
    the AC specifies a maximum?
    A/C = aircraft, what are AC? a Maximum what?

    Tower controllers work with keeping a Minimum separation, I think a 1/2 mile. But they tend to freak out if you are about to land at the beginning of a 3/4 mile runway if there is a A/C about to taxi/depart off the far end--won't clear you to land if the guy ahead is still on the runway. I was SUGGESTING for untowered patterns a minimum separation.
    Last edited by Vision401; 02-10-2018 at 06:20 PM.

  4. #14

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    Sorry I thought you were referencing an advisory circular. Tower controllers have their own criteria and they can keep planes much tighter than pilots left to do their own thing.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaleB View Post
    And here I thought it was just due to our proximity to Offutt AFB that some of our local CFIs seem to teach flying patterns sized for tankers and bombers.
    Speaking of Offutt AFB I used to live in LaVista, and Elkhorn, Nebraska. The tankers and bombers would turn to final over Elkhorn around 2000' And be over LaVista around 1000'. Elkhorn is 21 miles from Offutt.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonK View Post
    Speaking of Offutt AFB I used to live in LaVista, and Elkhorn, Nebraska. The tankers and bombers would turn to final over Elkhorn around 2000' And be over LaVista around 1000'. Elkhorn is 21 miles from Offutt.
    Elkhorn is now part of Omaha. When my family moved here in the mid 1960s, we were just outside of city limits at about 125th St.. Everything west of 127th was corn and bean fields. Now we have developments out past 200th. There's not a whole lot of traffic in and out of Offutt compared to what it was like back in the 60s and 70s, that's for sure. It is kind of cool though, to see an Air Force EC135 from above.
    Measure twice, cut once...
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  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaleB View Post
    Elkhorn is now part of Omaha. When my family moved here in the mid 1960s, we were just outside of city limits at about 125th St.. Everything west of 127th was corn and bean fields. Now we have developments out past 200th. There's not a whole lot of traffic in and out of Offutt compared to what it was like back in the 60s and 70s, that's for sure. It is kind of cool though, to see an Air Force EC135 from above.
    I remember the prototype 747 flying over our house in La Vista around '68, '69 flying to the Offutt airshow. like I said it was around 1000' and seemed like it was barely hanging in the air. We also got a few garage windows replaced by the Airforce when F-100's and F-4's flew over at supersonic and a few hundred feet off the ground. My dad said the Officer that came over to check the damage said the pilots were grounded for a while, and ours wasn't the only house with damage. I guess a lot of houses were damaged like over a hundred.

  8. #18
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    I remember the Vulcan flying directly over our house. While we were miles from Offutt, we were directly under the approach... EVERYTHING went directly overhead. That Vulcan was so cool. When I saw the video of the very last flight of the very last airworthy Vulcan, I have to admit that I got a little teary-eyed. There's one in the museum here... I guess they didn't figure it was worth flying home.
    Measure twice, cut once...
    scratch head, shrug, shim to fit.

  9. #19

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    Yep, I remember the Vulcan Another one that looked like it was barely hanging in the air with everything down.

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