January 2018 Sport Aviation

[Bill Berson]

I found this in AC 20-27g:
d. Use of Salvaged Assemblies from Type-Certificated Aircraft. The use ofused or salvaged assemblies (for example, landing gear, horizontal stabilizer, andengine mount) from type-certificated aircraft is permitted, as long as they are in acondition for safe operation. However—


Wings are not mentioned, soooo.
The question of using Type certificated 1-26 glider wings came up on another forum. I was looking for an answer specifically about wings from someone that has reused wings recently for a Volmer, Breezy or other. I found FAA Order 8130 has similar guidance but doesn't mention wings.

Jeff, this thread drift is fine and expected by me. You can certainly also start a Breezy thread if desired.

[Jeff Point]

Well, I guess it is Bill's thread, so if he wants to hijack it...

I'm going to reach out to my local DAR and get his thoughts on the use of factory-built wings. Granted it would only be one local data point, but it's something.

For the record, the two Breezys that were certified in 2017 (that I'm aware of) both used amateur built wings, so we don't have any recent examples to point to.

[flyrgreen]

I found this in AC 20-27g:
d. Use of Salvaged Assemblies from Type-Certificated Aircraft. The use ofused or salvaged assemblies (for example, landing gear, horizontal stabilizer, andengine mount) from type-certificated aircraft is permitted, as long as they are in acondition for safe operation. However—

Wings are not mentioned, soooo.....

The phrase "for example" sure sounds to me like AC 20-27g is including any and all assemblies from any Type-Certificated Aircraft. This would of course include wings, and anything else not mentioned in the "for example".

[Bill Berson]

FAA Order 8130.2J has more details. I don't know what "articles" is.

(4) When Builders Use Articles from Other Aircraft. The use of used or salvagedarticles, including military surplus articles, from other aircraft is permitted if they are in acondition for safe operation; however, all fabrication, installation, and assembly tasksaccomplished with used or salvaged articles will be credited to the “Mfr Kit/Part/Component”column on the Amateur-Built Aircraft Fabrication and Assembly Checklist. No credit will begiven toward the major-portion requirement for work on these salvaged articles. This includesany “rebuilding” or “restoring” activities to return these articles to an airworthy condition.Assembly credit may be given in those cases where used or salvaged articles are assembled withportions of the aircraft fabricated and assembled by the builder.

[flyrgreen]

FAA Order 8130.2J has more details. I don't know what "articles" is.

(4) When Builders Use Articles from Other Aircraft. The use of used or salvagedarticles, including military surplus articles, from other aircraft is permitted if they are in acondition for safe operation; however, all fabrication, installation, and assembly tasksaccomplished with used or salvaged articles will be credited to the “Mfr Kit/Part/Component”column on the Amateur-Built Aircraft Fabrication and Assembly Checklist. No credit will begiven toward the major-portion requirement for work on these salvaged articles. This includesany “rebuilding” or “restoring” activities to return these articles to an airworthy condition.Assembly credit may be given in those cases where used or salvaged articles are assembled withportions of the aircraft fabricated and assembled by the builder.

"Articles" seems like they are just using another word for "parts".

The next portion here seems straight ahead & understandable: if you (for example) take the wings off of a salvage plane, strip the fabric off, take out a few damaged ribs and a questionable hinge, you get no credit for that work towards the required 51% mandate. You haven't MADE anything yet.
But the next bit seems unnecessarily mean: when you then fabricate new ribs, install new hinges, and recover the wings, you still get no credit for time spent. If you had done the same work to a wing skeleton that was supplied by the kit-maker, you get time credit. Go figure.....

The last sentence ("Assembly credit may be given....") seems something like this (using our wing example): if you fabricated the fuselage and then needed to make some attach points to the reconditioned wings to fit them to your fuse, you get time credit for making those attach fittings and any welding.

[martymayes]

"Articles" seems like they are just using another word for "parts".

Interestingly, the guidance is not really any difference than what was initially published in 1958. Back then the FAA specifically said can't salvage a bunch of major assemblies or "articles" from junked planes and assemble into a homebuilt. I think current guidance is re-affirming what was originally intended.

[Frank Giger]

I really liked the article about "knowing the unknowns" when it comes to building an airplane.

I undertook the building of my own with equal measures of false confidence and humility - sometimes one just has to roll up the sleeves and dig in.

However, there were several times when I threw up my hands before I even started and begged for help, namely wiring stuff up and, when I had to, rebuilding the engine.

Neither are particularly difficult tasks, but I just didn't know what I didn't know, and so the chances of screwing up out of ignorance were pretty high. Of course I was there and did the work, but under a skilled, guiding hand.

[flyrgreen]

Interestingly, the guidance is not really any difference than what was initially published in 1958. Back then the FAA specifically said can't salvage a bunch of major assemblies or "articles" from junked planes and assemble into a homebuilt. I think current guidance is re-affirming what was originally intended.

Marty, what you say here is highly confusing. The FAA Order 8130.2J that is quoted clearly says "is permitted". And goes on to say E/AB builders won't get time credit for refurbing the parts.

Not to mention that people buy used TSO panel instruments all the time for their homebuilts, that were taken out of salvaged Certificated craft.

[martymayes]

Marty, what you say here is highly confusing. The FAA Order 8130.2J that is quoted clearly says "is permitted". And goes on to say E/AB builders won't get time credit for refurbing the parts.

No confusion intended. Yes, salvaged components are absolutely permitted. This has always been the case and what I was suggesting is the guidance hasn't changed. What has changed is how we track fabrication and assembly credit. Used to be by TLAR method (That Looks About Right). Now we have a checklist so the measurement is more precise.

What I intended to communicate with my [salvage a bunch of major assemblies] paraphrased comment was that salvaged wings added to a salvaged fuselage with a salvaged tail group sitting on salvaged landing gear is unlikely to meet the major portion rule.

Not to mention that people buy used TSO panel instruments all the time for their homebuilts, that were taken out of salvaged Certificated craft.

which is encouraged. Instruments make up a small part of the pie so not giving up much by using salvaged instruments.

[Bill Berson]

"Article" is defined here in 21.1. Doesn't sound like a major assembly such as a wing.

(a) Except for aircraft subject to the provisions of part 107 of this chapter, this part prescribes—
(1) Procedural requirements for issuing and changing—
(i) Design approvals;
(ii) Production approvals;
(iii) Airworthiness certificates; and
(iv) Airworthiness approvals;
(2) Rules governing applicants for, and holders of, any approval or certificate specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section; and
(3) Procedural requirements for the approval of articles.
(b) For the purposes of this part—
(1) Airworthiness approval means a document, issued by the FAA for an aircraft, aircraft engine, propeller, or article, which certifies that the aircraft, aircraft engine, propeller, or article conforms to its approved design and is in a condition for safe operation, unless otherwise specified;
(2) Article means a material, part, component, process, or appliance;
(3) Commercial part means an article that is listed on an FAA-approved Commercial Parts List included in a design approval holder's Instructions for Continued