January 2018 Sport Aviation

[martymayes]

Not often. Most bikes seem to be ridden by young, single guys (or at least those without a current wife and kid) or geezers. Yes, there are outliers, but they are just that.

I’ve been on some group rides and there was a complete cross section of the population. Throw out the outliers and half the group is gone. Many of these people would enjoy aviation but they are not aware recreational aviation exist. When is the last time you saw a mainstream TV commercial advertising GA?

[Sam Buchanan]

Hal has it about right. Once you get above 50' it's quite comfortable. 500 feet is perfect. 1000 feet is the limit of comfort. Around 3000 feet the acrophobia starts to set it. Or, as I was told, the front seat is made of elastic and it shrinks by an inch for each 1000 feet of altitude. At 3000 you're sitting on a 2X4, edge-wise.

But it is more fun than two barrels of monkeys. Come on Sam, you're ready for another project!

That is an interesting description of the ride.

Jeff, did you build new wings?

[Jeff Point]

Jeff, did you build new wings?

Since this thread is already hijacked beyond recognition...

Yes, I built a set of wood rib/ spar Cub wings from the Wag Aero plans. If you can lay your hands on some serviceable Cub wings, all the better.

And to bring it back- I too thought SA was a good one this month, with a big emphasis on affordable, fun flying.

[Sam Buchanan]

Since this thread is already hijacked beyond recognition...

Yes, I built a set of wood rib/ spar Cub wings from the Wag Aero plans. If you can lay your hands on some serviceable Cub wings, all the better.

And to bring it back- I too thought SA was a good one this month, with a big emphasis on affordable, fun flying.

Thanks, Jeff.

Now, back to our normal programming.

[Bill Berson]

I thought the FAA stopped allowing reuse of existing Pioer wings. Is it still possible to use old factory built Piper wings for a Breezy?

[bbutler455]

I thought the article on the "Chipper" homebuilt was pretty interesting. I do agree about the declining number of private pilots and looking around the local EAA chapter and our flying club most are well over 50 and many over 60/70. Let's fact it: the ability for the average Joe or Jill to own a plane, pay for the maintenance and storage prices most folks out of the picture. If I wasn't on a small strip, owned my hangar and legally able to do most of my maintenance I'd probably be out of business.

May I weigh in on why general aviation is declining? Twice in my life I considered aviation. In my 40's I owned a company and had justification to fly. The economics compared to a $90 southwest airlines ticket were ridiculous. My father owned two Mooneys and flew everywhere. I grew up flying. If the son of a flying fanatic can't make the math work... who can?

Now I am the typical retiree with the time and money to pursue many different passions. I have decades of experience restoring vintage cars and motorcycles. Why not a vintage light sport plane?

Why not? Because the reality of light sport is much different than the dream. I could easily build, complete, or restore a light sport plane. I would love to restore an early Champ or Cub in my shop and fly it around the Ozark mountains surrounding my lake house. My problem is "scope creep". With 1340lb gross limit I can either carry an additional person/instructor, or I can carry gas. Now I have to either pay to rent a plane for lessons or go for the PP license. Now, how do I get the plane back and forth from my shop to a strip. If I can't find a private grass strip to use, now I need to rent a hanger and add all the comm gear to fly out of a controlled airport. My simple dream of buzzing around Table Rock Lake in my cool old tail dragger has expanded to a commitment that would exclude my other passions. (And FYI my wife is convinced I will kill myself, but she felt that what about the motorcycles.)

Most of you won't "get" my perspectives. My brother and brother-in-law both have $100k tied up in airplanes and spend ridiculous money so they can fly from point A to point B. (boring) This may be why they are still working and I am retired. If I sound a little frustrated, please excuse me. I had a dream... but I just can't get it to add up.

Brock

[1600vw]

bbutler: If you do not hangar at a small private airstrip does not mean you need to hangar at a field or strip with a control tower. In my area we have all sorts of airports that have no control tower and have paved strips. I know many who fly who do not spend a fraction of what you stated.

You are right I don't get it. If all you really wanted to do was fly it is not as expensive as you portray it. In order for me to fly I had to give up some things. One was the car. I sold my car and now ride with the wife in her car. I don't need a car or all the headache that goes with one. I moved to be closer to my airplane to save in cost for commuting back and forth. I was lucky and found a place at the airstrip my airplane is hangar at. But if there was not a spot here I had my eye on a small town about 5 miles away. I would have moved into a rental there.

If you really want to fly to be in the air and nothing more. It is not only for the rich and won't break your bank account. I have many friends who fly and do not have much anything. But they do have an airplane.

Have you thought about sharing an airplane? If you lived closer I would share my dream with you or let you become part of my dream. I should mention all these people or my friends fly Homebuilt airplanes.

I hope you find your dream before it is to late.



Tony

[Jeff Point]

I thought the FAA stopped allowing reuse of existing Pioer wings. Is it still possible to use old factory built Piper wings for a Breezy?

I'm not the expert but I believe so. There is enough raw fabrication in the remaining structure (like, all of it) that one could use existing wings and still meet the 51% requirement. You'd be wise to consult your local FAA people about this in advance though.

If we're going to continue discussing Breezy construction (which I'm happy to do) how about we start another thread in the Homebuilders section?

[martymayes]

I thought the FAA stopped allowing reuse of existing Pioer wings. Is it still possible to use old factory built Piper wings for a Breezy?

I'm not the expert but I believe so. There is enough raw fabrication in the remaining structure (like, all of it) that one could use existing wings and still meet the 51% requirement. You'd be wise to consult your local FAA people about this in advance though.

AC 20-27G does not prohibit the use of major assemblies (like wings) salvaged from other planes but it does say using too many salvaged assemblies may result in the plane not meeting the "major portion" requirement. It also suggest contacting the FSDO or MIDO if you do this to ensure compliance with the major portion rule.
So if you build a Breezy using the wings, tail group, landing gear and engine mount from a Piper, might be a problem.

[martymayes]

Why not? Because the reality of light sport is much different than the dream. I could easily build, complete, or restore a light sport plane. I would love to restore an early Champ or Cub in my shop and fly it around the Ozark mountains surrounding my lake house. My problem is "scope creep". With 1340lb gross limit I can either carry an additional person/instructor, or I can carry gas. Now I have to either pay to rent a plane for lessons or go for the PP license. Now, how do I get the plane back and forth from my shop to a strip. If I can't find a private grass strip to use, now I need to rent a hanger and add all the comm gear to fly out of a controlled airport. My simple dream of buzzing around Table Rock Lake in my cool old tail dragger has expanded to a commitment that would exclude my other passions.

Brock, you are absolutely right. Even at the basic level there are various commitments that goes along with flying activities (like any activity). There should also be a commitment to maintain skills. If only more people would do that there would be a lot fewer LOC type fender bender accidents.

I been riding motorcycles for >50 yrs (including a stint in professional racing) and 2 yrs ago I took the MSF advanced riding course! It was actually kinda fun! Most would thumb their nose at such nonsense but I plan on doing it again! I also took a boating course with my kids so they could get a boating license even though I have operated boats since I was a kid. It was a lot of fun too! Flight training is also fun but pilots are kinda adverse to training.